tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post138015937556605976..comments2024-03-18T13:50:45.615-04:00Comments on What's Alan Watching?: The Wire: David Simon Q & AAlan Sepinwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-9769229110675771082011-09-02T19:28:28.029-04:002011-09-02T19:28:28.029-04:00After reading forums and different interviews, and...After reading forums and different interviews, and rewatching (I started in July and have watched nothing else since) I've realized how conditioned Hollywood and broadcast television has made me, so many things I've missed, that upon rewatching starts to click. This is an absolutely incredible drama and I can't recommend it enough. Thank you Mr Simon for the gift you have given me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-10577032626295610462011-04-15T14:33:03.240-04:002011-04-15T14:33:03.240-04:00I just finished it on DVD, and this really helps t...I just finished it on DVD, and this really helps to wean myself off of it, which I've been dreading for weeks now.<br /><br />And your finale recap as well. Thanks.Tracynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-22165513962785137262010-10-31T12:52:44.382-04:002010-10-31T12:52:44.382-04:00I'm really surprised nobody links the train tr...I'm really surprised nobody links the train tracks with the 'straight and narrow tracks' in the lyrics of the show's theme songAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-24185774647823134362010-06-07T08:56:46.315-04:002010-06-07T08:56:46.315-04:00Over the past two months I have watched all five s...Over the past two months I have watched all five seasons--it was an incredible experience, like reading a great book you never want to end. Now here's something I've thought of--throughout the series, Omar whistles "The Farmer in the Dell," the last line of which is "the cheese stands alone." Any connection between this and Cheese standing alone at the end?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-27415974741740015542010-03-30T16:07:21.660-04:002010-03-30T16:07:21.660-04:00The best TV drama/show ever.
Great interview.
Reg...The best TV drama/show ever. <br />Great interview.<br />Regarding the train: Has anyone considered the joke about the light at the end of the tunnel really being a train barreling inexorably at you.mdraganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10074050481508716997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-76295071599950674112009-08-25T12:27:58.615-04:002009-08-25T12:27:58.615-04:00Maybe it's because I used to work on the railw...Maybe it's because I used to work on the railways, but for me any train track is a no-go zone - they're so fast, inexorable and unable to swerve (not to mention almost silent, some of the time) that standing on a train track is a good way to end your life as a smear.<br /><br />It's like the difference between someone who respects a gun and someone who does not - you never point a gun at anything, no matter how sure it's unloaded you are, that you wouldn't want to shoot.<br /><br />So while the metaphor is indeed one of an implacable force heading down an unchangeable route, the real key symbolism for me is the way Mcnulty seems to deliberately put himself in the way.Gridlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13959099751063828174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-54905922792895314642009-08-15T03:26:14.190-04:002009-08-15T03:26:14.190-04:00After finishing reading the interview, I think I k...After finishing reading the interview, I think I know the symbolism of the trains and of Marlo's and Omar's names. In my impatience, I haven't had time to read the comments and I apologize for that discourtesy and any redundancy in my interpretation.<br /><br />Trains cannot deviate from their course. They have only the power to stop and start, but not the power to turn or to change their course. When McNulty and Bunk stand on them, it symbolizes, as I'm sure you've said, that they can't change the direction they're headed in. The trains traveling along them are the institutions, locked in the same pattern.<br /><br />And I guess, from there, the symbolism of McNulty's first encounter with the train (staring it down, pissing on the train tracks) is pretty self-explanatory.<br /><br />Marlo, meanwhile, aspires to pure and absolute omnipotence, to godhood. He wants to be so feared and ever-present that people dare not speak his name but in whispers, that they dare not affront him lest they suffer his inevitable wrath.<br /><br />Omar has that. His mere presence, even in a bathrobe, strikes all-conquering terror. His name alone is enough to achieve his ends. He is godlike.<br /><br />Marlo's desire to kill Omar is motivated by that, by jealousy. He doesn't covet what Joe or Avon has. That comes easily to him. But Omar's reputation is singularly elusive. So I think that Marlo's anagramic identity symbolizes the fact that he is a pretender to Omar.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-61560401372041442002009-05-04T14:04:00.000-04:002009-05-04T14:04:00.000-04:00David Simon, one of the creators of The Wire, has ...David Simon, one of the creators of The Wire, has a great admiration for Baltimore. He calls the show a love letter to the city. Check out this video he shot for Baltimore's convention and visitors bureau where he talks about the city that has inspired him. Really a great piece and you can see where his passion comes from.<br /><br />http://www.visitmybaltimore.com/members/show/2/23ilyse711https://www.blogger.com/profile/06301583220784289274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-25659673435746783672009-03-11T13:07:00.000-04:002009-03-11T13:07:00.000-04:00Talk about over-analysing the train tracks.The sym...Talk about over-analysing the train tracks.<BR/><BR/>The symbolism of the train tracks is the simplest one possible. The train tracks are what divides Good from Bad in the US.<BR/><BR/>McNulty and Bunk regularly come right up to the edge of that line. But its only ever McNulty who'll get right up on top of that line.<BR/><BR/>And Bunk warns him to get off.<BR/><BR/>Easy.InsideYourBallshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16353018015040772322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-55993323773312843342008-10-23T18:14:00.000-04:002008-10-23T18:14:00.000-04:00Ok I have just discovered the wire.... on box set ...Ok I have just discovered the wire.... on box set ... I live in Dublin Ireland and this was the most impressive thing out of America in the last three years.<BR/><BR/><BR/>PLEASE PLEASE BRING THIS SHOW BACK - it is shown here but only on channels that don't get any publicity and are centred on Irish Language programmes.<BR/><BR/>I have to repect the writors for not over commerciallising it - but common what are the producers doing ??? so many people need to see this show - have some respect for your country ...<BR/><BR/>ultimately I just want another series of the Wire ... PLEASSSEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-70903820811401684632008-05-07T12:12:00.000-04:002008-05-07T12:12:00.000-04:00"Why was Nick Sobotka at the press conference with..."Why was Nick Sobotka at the press conference with Krawchek when he should be in FEDERAL WITNESS PROTECTION?"<BR/><BR/>Nick Sobotka got parole, and in the same episode he immediately returns to the docks saying "no one fucks with us on our own turf".<BR/><BR/>And of course, the whole point of that scene is that he's angry about losing "his turf."<BR/><BR/>So not its not a plot holeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-14300552518948763152008-04-07T05:15:00.000-04:002008-04-07T05:15:00.000-04:00good point March 25 Anon. I was just re-reading t...good point March 25 Anon. I was just re-reading this one was struck by this quote re: Omar's death: <BR/><BR/>"With one caveat. We did introduce him, and I had it in my mind that I wanted a moment like "The Shootist" or the buried moment in the gunfight at the end of "Wild Bunch." The character that was most in the Western archetype -- and George had a lot of fun with this -- was Omar. The inner city is now the Wild West, the new frontier in terms of American storytelling, it has been for several decades now. We played a lot of our Western film themes and archetypes through Omar's story."<BR/><BR/>another great example of this scenario is Bronson's character in Once Upon A Time In The West.Abehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11694836072604174441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-43045794187756894172008-03-25T18:26:00.000-04:002008-03-25T18:26:00.000-04:00I was disappointed that no one else mentioned what...I was disappointed that no one else mentioned what I saw in my favorite scene, when Marlow goes back to the corner. While in jail, the one time they let him lose his cool, his name is all that matters to him. Which his posse, especially Chris, didn't seem to understand. <BR/><BR/>When he walks up on the corner, it's not Marlow the corner boys are talking about, but Omar, who even after his death seems to still be remembered by those on the street. Meanwhile, the king of Baltimore at the time isn't even known to those working the corners (and probably selling his dope, too).<BR/><BR/>I've thought about this since the finale. I'm caught between what Prop Joe said about the old gangster whose name no one knew because he simply, "Bought for a dollar, sold for two," and Marlow's own admission that his name is his name.<BR/><BR/>Anyone else with me on this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-4993733768892517172008-03-25T14:30:00.000-04:002008-03-25T14:30:00.000-04:00I will mention this briefly, only because nobody h...I will mention this briefly, only because nobody has noticed it: The montage song at the end of Season 3 is "Fast Train." And I think the reference to all things being cyclical is their true meaning, though a broader argument could certainly be mustered.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-21411034876310028822008-03-19T22:47:00.000-04:002008-03-19T22:47:00.000-04:00SIMON has a right to hire the actors he wants. RO...SIMON has a right to hire the actors he wants. ROC starred a man who discovered acting while in prison for murder. Tim Allen did time for drugs. <BR/><BR/>My point is, let the justice system do its job. Then move on. Sorry, but your petty moral outrage is only relevant to you. You don't get to decide who gets what job for the rest of their lives or what job is too good for them. Maybe you didn't realize.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-14619984871357861362008-03-19T02:43:00.000-04:002008-03-19T02:43:00.000-04:00So Chase has no problem with hiring a convicted mu...So Chase has no problem with hiring a convicted murderer to play a murderer, huh? It's that same "street cred" mentality that record execs use to sell their rap albums. I hope Pearson's victim's family sues her ghetto butt (in civil court), for every penny her "autobiography" & upcoming rap album sells. This piece of trash deserves nothing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-48351298967638330032008-03-19T02:35:00.000-04:002008-03-19T02:35:00.000-04:00I know I'm late to the party, but the finale was a...I know I'm late to the party, but the finale was a let down. Maybe my expectations were so high, given that the majority of the series was brilliantly written. The very idea that Kima got a pass from McNulty & Lester (after snitching to Daniels), was laughable. As anyone in law enforcement will tell you, not only does a cop never "tattle" on another cop, but if found out-that cop is deemed untrustworthy, and usually harrassed out of the job. "McNulty" never would have told her-he understood she did what she had to do, and "Lester" wouldn't have partied with her.<BR/><BR/>The whole "symbolisim" of the train tracks & late night drunken bonding could have many meanings or it's just a train.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-60023175958709968272008-03-13T23:36:00.000-04:002008-03-13T23:36:00.000-04:00Anonymous: Thank you for continuing the conversat...Anonymous: Thank you for continuing the conversation, even though at this point it seems to be as much about the two of us clarifying our communications as The Wire itself. <BR/><BR/>Let me explicitly acknowledge that I heard you say before that you were not satisfied by the device of the copycat killer and you wish it had not been employed. The reason why I did not acknowledge this before is the same reason why even now it strikes me as outside of my concern. What I am attending to is your defense of the device, which you continue to uphold.<BR/><BR/>And I continue to oppose. Mind you, is it really possible to debate your statement, "each viewer is certainly entitled to their own experience"? At this point I am willing to forgo further analysis of the device as a plot "crutch" (your term, my opinion) because I sense that you have lost interest in such analysis, preferring instead to leave me to my experience with the dismissive comment, "if it doesn't work for you on that level, it doesn't work for you on that level." Fine then. So much for the device understood in formal or conventional terms.<BR/><BR/>The thematic or ideological substance of the device remains, however. On this score, with all due respect, I find your treatment evasive. Instead of directly examining the content of the character and how this functions in the story, you return to the conventional status of the device and go further afield into a general consideration of the classical dramatic templates upon which The Wire is based; (admittedly , better source material than Encyclopedia Brown). These templates are all very well but entirely irrelevant in my estimation, as is your recognition of the mythical aspects incorporated into the realism of the program. You're not wrong but you are avoiding the precise object of my critique; again, the actual content of the character and how this functions in the story. <BR/><BR/>I get the impression that you are preoccupied with protecting the moral credentials of The Wire's writers by regarding the ethical problem I highlight as one of the few non-problematic "discrepancies" in the show. Personally, I believe it is more respectful of these artists to hold them to the high standards they have set for themselves that we both admire.<BR/><BR/>Then - BenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-83787967773350845722008-03-13T11:04:00.000-04:002008-03-13T11:04:00.000-04:00In the mortuary why does the coroner switch Omars ...<I>In the mortuary why does the coroner switch Omars name tag?</I>.<BR/><BR/>Because the wrong tag was on Omar's body. He was correcting the error.<BR/><BR/>HBO.com has a nice "finale letter" from David Simon to the fans y'all might want to read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-3170528855268759232008-03-13T10:11:00.000-04:002008-03-13T10:11:00.000-04:00“You speak of deus ex machina as if it were one am...“You speak of deus ex machina as if it were one among many literary/artistic conventions to employ as need be, with a lovely pedigree no less.”<BR/><BR/>Actually if you go back and read what I said you’ll see that I found use of the convention dramatically unsatisfying, inconsistent with the high quality of plotting throughout the show, and, all things being equal, something I’d wish the authors had avoided.<BR/><BR/>Having said that, my point was not that “[deus ex machina is] one among many literary/artistic conventions to employ as need be” but rather that it is a convention specifically and pointedly germane to Greek tragedies, which, like it or not, is the literary tradition in which The Wire is grounded. Because I’ve come to appreciate that aspect (The Wire as rooted in Greek tragedy) I suppose I can go back and watch the resolution of that story line without leaving the moment, whereas in most any other context in which the convention is employed as a crutch to escape poor storytelling the writers will indeed lose me. If it doesn’t work for you on that level, then it doesn’t work for you on that level – each viewer is certainly entitled to their own experience.<BR/><BR/>You take Simon and company to task for employing a dispensable insane homeless “non-person” as offensive to a basic humanitarian sensibility. It was my contention that these writers, who have spent five seasons diligently arguing for the humanity and dignity of the other America we have created, did not suddenly carelessly betray their humanitarian ethics anymore than they have suddenly forgotten how to portray realistic police work by using such blatant “clues” (the business cards) that would strain the credibility of an Encyclopedia Brown mystery. I’m inclined to give the writers more credit than that and have resolved such discrepancies in my own mind by assuming that they were conscious choices of the writers, overtly serving the use of the deus ex machina convention that they deemed appropriate in the context of the Greek tragedy they were creating. I accept this in the same way I accept Omar’s jump out the window which might otherwise take me out of the reality of the moment. Afterall, as Simon says in his interview here:<BR/><BR/>“we did want it [Omar’s jump] to feel a little bit mythic, and "What the fuck?" because it fit with the general arc of Greek tragedy.”<BR/><BR/>Whether I’m correct in this assumption, only Simon and company can say. Whether this was a strong choice or not, each viewer will probably have to decide that for themselves. I simply argue that these choices were neither accidental nor careless.<BR/><BR/>As to the metaphysical nature of The Wire: as seen through the lens of Greek tragedy there certainly are the equivalent of Greek gods imposing their will upon the human experience, indiscriminately hurling lightning bolts at our unsuspecting and often undeserving characters. Simon has elaborated on this in countless interviews that one can google, for example:<BR/><BR/>“We're stealing instead from an earlier, less-traveled construct -- the Greeks -- lifting our thematic stance wholesale from Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides to create doomed and fated protagonists who confront a rigged game and their own mortality. But instead of the old gods, The Wire is a Greek tragedy in which the postmodern institutions are the Olympian forces. It's the police department, or the drug economy, or the political structures, or the school administration, or the macroeconomics forces that are throwing the lightning bolts and hitting people in the ass for no reason. In much of television, and in a good deal of our stage drama, individuals are often portrayed as rising above institutions to achieve catharsis. In this drama, the institutions always prove larger, and those characters with hubris enough to challenge the postmodern construct of American empire are invariably mocked, marginalized, or crushed. Greek tragedy for the new millennium, so to speak.” http://www.slate.com/id/2154694/pagenum/all/<BR/><BR/>-passingthruAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-70173729618465594902008-03-13T03:14:00.000-04:002008-03-13T03:14:00.000-04:00In the mortuary why does the coroner switch Omars ...In the mortuary why does the coroner switch Omars name tag?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-18470802312817476492008-03-12T19:09:00.000-04:002008-03-12T19:09:00.000-04:00Anonymous: You speak of deus ex machina as if it w...Anonymous: You speak of deus ex machina as if it were one among many literary/artistic conventions to employ as need be, with a lovely pedigree no less. But as I understand it, in our contemporary culture, it is by definition an incredible, unconvincing last resort to wind up the plot; i.e., allowable only in a comedic conclusion to an already farcical construction. The latter, obviously, does not apply to The Wire.<BR/><BR/>As for your analogous reasoning with respect to the copycat killer and metaphysical forces, now it is my turn to claim incomprehension. I do not follow your point, probably due to the utter absence of anything remotely metaphysical in The Wire, even though I grasp that your point was pursued analogically.<BR/><BR/>Algernon: I apologize for my typo which resulted in me calling you "Algergernon."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-83890115694120371482008-03-12T15:55:00.000-04:002008-03-12T15:55:00.000-04:00i always thought the trains with their green light...i always thought the trains with their green lights had something to do with The Great Gatsby and the aftermath/decay of the american dream. the first scene of the series concludes with "This is America", when mcnulty is trying to figure out why they kept letting snotboogey into the game, despite knowing what the outcome would be everytime. west egg = west baltimore, gatsby got himself in the game with money but could never 'win' because it was rigged. etc. etc.sshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04352135836843527058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-44006557785266895482008-03-12T14:32:00.000-04:002008-03-12T14:32:00.000-04:00“The plot device of the mentally challenged copy-c...“The plot device of the mentally challenged copy-cat killer in episode #60 is indeed a device, which is to say that it is horribly contrived, a deus ex machina.”<BR/><BR/>When I first saw this play out I too was dissatisfied – not so much because my political correctness radar went off at the appearance of a disposable insane homeless criminal, but because dues ex machina resolutions are almost without exception dramatically unsatisfying. This one particularly stood out in a show like The Wire in which such care had been taken to plot out where the characters go, such that the “everything is connected” theme still felt organic.<BR/><BR/>Upon reflection I suppose I’m come to appreciate this particular resolution precisely because it is a dues ex machina. Simon has made it very clear that The Wire is modeled on the Greek tragedies and few things say Greek tragedy more than the use of a deus ex machina. In that context I can accept it as a conscious literary/artistic choice. Having said that, homage to the Greeks or not, I confess that I would have still preferred an ending that did not rely on the use of that particular convention. Though maybe that makes me no better than those who would have also preferred Simon bend the conventions of Greek tragedy by allowing Omar to go out in a blaze of glory, taking out Chris/Snoop along the way.<BR/><BR/>“The writers of The Wire pin an actual murder on the guy according to the same immoral standard." What I mean by this is that the writers of The Wire save the careers of Carcetti and Rhonda Pearlman, save McNulty and Lester from jail, save the entire milieu they have composed - at the expense of a character we are not supposed to care about because he's hopelessly deranged. The writers rely on the insanity of the character to make him utterly dispensable as a human being.”<BR/><BR/>Perhaps I’d argue that the gods have not intervened at the 11th hour to save Carcetti, Pearlman, Bonds, Rawls, Templeton, Lester, McNulty, or the rest of the milieu (after all “The gods will not save you”). Rather, the gods are lowered into our play in the form of a decidedly “Not-a-person” persona to save the institutions that these afore-mentioned characters serve. In this reading, the out-of-place connect-dots-ease with which McNulty solved the copycat murders, and perhaps to a degree the lack of “humanness” in the murderer, may be there to reinforce the use of the convention. No doubt, there are other levels of interpretation/symbolism one might also attribute regarding the theme of homelessness, etc. <BR/><BR/>Just my opinion, though it wouldn’t be the first time I missed what Simon and crew were trying to say…<BR/><BR/>-passingthruAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-10785157232418074192008-03-12T10:11:00.000-04:002008-03-12T10:11:00.000-04:00Algergernon: I appreciate your comments very much...Algergernon: I appreciate your comments very much and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass. Your attention to the meaning of homelessness in The Wire is excellent for its class analysis. (Incidentally, a friend of mine had to point out to me the degradation of the dock worker from Season Two into a homeless person in Season Five, an explicit indication in The Wire that many of the social pathologies examined in the program are the result of generalized unemployment.)<BR/><BR/>Having acknowledged the excellence of your class analysis, it sort of breaks my heart to point out that it does not speak to my critical point; i.e., the INSANITY of the character in question. It is this and not his homelessness as such that enables the writers to literally "use" him as a plot device and dehumanize him in the process. It's not just that the character is given no substantial back-story, no history. This can be forgiven at the 11th hour. Rather, its that his entire "voice" is reduced to an abstract, categorical "fucking crazy as a loon." It is this not-a-person that the writers want us to accept (as a copycat killer) and simultaneously reject (as just a nut case) - a sleight-of-hand maneuver on their part that I find ethically reprehensible.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous: Compression may or may not justify certain tidy answers. My position is that this tidy answer ain't so tidy after all.<BR/><BR/>Then - BenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com