tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post332284513590528995..comments2024-03-19T03:23:06.738-04:00Comments on What's Alan Watching?: Mad Men: Jews cruiseAlan Sepinwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-1734587962904992892007-08-31T13:47:00.000-04:002007-08-31T13:47:00.000-04:00I don't always catch everything on this show. I ha...I don't always catch everything on this show. I had to do a little research after the episode, just like I did when I watched The West Wing.<BR/><BR/>I now know that Zioists compared the creation of Israel with their return from Babylon captivity ("By the waters of Babylon, there we sat down and wept when we remembered Zion." Psalms 137:1).<BR/><BR/>I also learned that there was a popular joke that goes, although the dog plays the piano badly, the amazing thing is that he can play the piano at all.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10348516665066792918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-43671693640783327502007-08-27T22:30:00.000-04:002007-08-27T22:30:00.000-04:00My take on it was that Dick/Don's mother was Jewis...My take on it was that Dick/Don's mother was Jewish and died, his gentile father remarried Adam's extremely religious Christian mother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-21132490586355400342007-08-27T09:32:00.000-04:002007-08-27T09:32:00.000-04:00Don's father may have been a non-observant, which ...Don's father may have been a non-observant, which would explain why he knows next to nothing about being Jewish, as well as why he's hiding his past. It doesn't matter that he's not religiously Jewish - being ethnically Jewish is just as bad in WASP world.<BR/><BR/>Also, is it just me, or did anyone else get the vibe that Adam's mother is a very, very religious Christian? I got that feeling, but it also could just be that I'm not familiar enough with how people talked in that time period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-60634362591594586472007-08-26T20:32:00.000-04:002007-08-26T20:32:00.000-04:00Best episode so far. Not so sure about polygamy t...Best episode so far. <BR/><BR/>Not so sure about polygamy theory. According to the AMC site, the flashback took place in a "farmhouse in Pennsylvania" and Adam referenced that various aunts helped raise him and Dick/Don during last week's episode, right? <BR/><BR/>Or maybe those "aunts" are sister-wives!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-83206725378999633452007-08-24T21:49:00.000-04:002007-08-24T21:49:00.000-04:00The reason I thought of polygamy was the presence ...The reason I thought of polygamy was the presence of so many women in the room right after childbirth. It seemed strange.Dani In NChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15032707452740200776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-12260925985913475002007-08-24T16:47:00.000-04:002007-08-24T16:47:00.000-04:00"I could've been Marilyn instead of Rachel if my m...<I>"I could've been Marilyn instead of Rachel if my mother hadn't died in childbirth." </I><BR/><BR/>There is a Jewish tradition of naming children for (or with same initial of) the recently deceased.<BR/><BR/>So I took this to mean that Rachel thought she might have had a more gentile-sounding name if she had not been named for the most recently deceased relative, her Mother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-2885367614331541542007-08-24T15:27:00.000-04:002007-08-24T15:27:00.000-04:00Seems like there's an underlying metaphor of Israe...Seems like there's an underlying metaphor of Israel as "the other woman." "American has a love affair with Israel" says one of the tourism reps, and nearly all of the non-agency plot deals with infidelity.<BR/><BR/>Interesting to find out that Rachel isn't even born of a Jewish mother. "I could've been Marilyn instead of Rachel if my mother hadn't died in childbirth." (Love Don's response: "what's the difference?) So Rachel is possibly even more exiled then just being a Jew in 1960. And having a mother who died in childbirth must make her even more attractive to Don's little Dick (Whitman.)<BR/><BR/>Dani in NC (re: polygamy) - Maybe that's why HBO didn't pick up the series (Big Love conflict ;) Agree that Don isn't Jewish (too convenient and over the top at the same time) but I'm not sure about the polygamy. It's been mentioned before that he considered himself an orphan (Hamm let this slip out in behind the scenes clips,) and I think his mother died early and his father remarried then died before Adam was born (to Abigail.)Shawn Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703481653646144923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-42120267041778559192007-08-24T15:21:00.000-04:002007-08-24T15:21:00.000-04:00I was a little perplexed by that dream sequence. ...I was a little perplexed by that dream sequence. It is pretty unusual for half-siblings who live together to share a dad but not a mom. Adam also has a decidedly non-semitic look, and in the Jewish faith, you're only really Jewish if your mother was Jewish. Perhaps Don's mother was a holocaust victim, although I can't really wrap my head around the timeline.<BR/> I don''t think polygamy really fits the rest of the story, but an absent mother certainly does.Homertojeebushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14716825626940216299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-69964052815572834682007-08-24T14:56:00.000-04:002007-08-24T14:56:00.000-04:00Several commenters on another blog have suggested ...Several commenters on another blog have suggested that the dream sequence in the beginning was saying that Don is hiding the fact that he is Jewish. They felt that was why the whole episode focused on Israel. I disagree, however. My current theory (which changes with every episode!) is that Don's father was a polygamist, and that Don was possibly mistreated by one of the wives. That would explain his inner conflict. He hates himself because he turned into his father by chasing after all these women.Dani In NChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15032707452740200776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-74697517759772917542007-08-24T14:53:00.000-04:002007-08-24T14:53:00.000-04:00OMG! The dog playing the piano comment made me lau...OMG! The dog playing the piano comment made me laugh for 5 minutes! It was just TOO accurate. Thanks for pointing it out.Kate LaFrancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06902375474195365717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-50976677005619885592007-08-24T14:38:00.000-04:002007-08-24T14:38:00.000-04:00A shicker is a drunkard.This was another great epi...A <I>shicker</I> is a drunkard.<BR/>This was another great episode. <BR/>Roger's complaints about his daughter--won't go to college, doesn't want to work, unsuitable boyfriends--are straight out of <I>The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit</I>, and Don was even reading <I>The Best of Everything</I>, the film of which, no matter what Weiner says, is clearly the inspiration for the Sterling Cooper office set design.<BR/>Joan may not love anyone, but Salvatore sure loves Joan Crawford...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-30401518337961425142007-08-24T12:47:00.000-04:002007-08-24T12:47:00.000-04:00The show is just brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. ...The show is just brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. The biggest flaw was the actual political poetry -- Hollywood rarely if ever gets the beatnik scene right. However, the underlying greatness of the episode was Weiner & Co.'s exploration of their own Jewish heritage, including the relationship to Israel (and Israelis), to assimilation, to interfaith dating/marriage (schikster?) to acceptance of Anti-Semitism as a fact of life, filtered all Brechtian through the 1960 lens -- the world of the writers' parents. To top it off, Betty's story about her first kiss with the surprisingly good-looking Jewish boy, showed the limits of tolerance and points to an interesting future -- I predict she'd gain some sort of consciousness over the 1960's, if not a second husband (after marriage to Don falls apart), maybe a caring Jewish guy from Westchester.Mark Netterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16252314588611552114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-49507532641539375772007-08-24T11:59:00.000-04:002007-08-24T11:59:00.000-04:00For a team of troglogdyte anti-semites, they restr...<I>For a team of troglogdyte anti-semites, they restrained themselves from making Holocaust jokes, which I thought was a bit untrue to the vibe Weiner set up.</I><BR/><BR/>Am I being naive in thinking that by 1960, and possibly earlier, pretty much anyone would be horrified by the Holocaust? I'll accept that anti-semitism was rampant, but callous jokes about the Holocaust might have been a bit much for that time.<BR/><BR/><I>Does Joan love anyone?</I><BR/>Probably not even herself. However, I think her bitterness comes from being a smart, talented woman with few options. Unlike Rachel, she doesn't have a family business to go into. She's on her own, and she's pissed.<BR/>I love Joan, but I want to tell her "Don't make that face. It will freeze that way."<BR/><BR/>Another great episode. Every one is better than the last.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-55954049274831963112007-08-24T10:48:00.000-04:002007-08-24T10:48:00.000-04:00I was telling my wife last night that I'm still on...I was telling my wife last night that I'm still on the fence abourt the story here, but I loooove the offhand (you name it - smoking, misogyny, racism). When I told her about the dog-piano thing, she laughed out loud. 2 or 3 moments like that per week will keep me tuning in.<BR/> I think the lack of holocaust jokes is consistent. Most of what we find "offensive" on the show are things that were normal back then and not considered mean. I think that one of the ironies of offhanded bigotry is that they really don't see the connection between their own attitudes and the people in those holocaust photographs.Homertojeebushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14716825626940216299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-76875837361339726232007-08-24T01:26:00.000-04:002007-08-24T01:26:00.000-04:00And I see no qualitative difference between the re...And I see no qualitative difference between the research hag in the lipstick room (who is the first mature woman I've ever seen in MAD MEN, other than a viperish Dyckman-Campbell mom or the random waitress) and Joan, other than time. Their sclerotic smugness is the same.<BR/><BR/>Does Joan love anyone? Who in her life told her she was ugly -- because with that overcare of appearance, and her bitter mouth, someone had to, all the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-4095858104470391782007-08-24T01:24:00.000-04:002007-08-24T01:24:00.000-04:00For a team of troglogdyte anti-semites, they restr...For a team of troglogdyte anti-semites, they restrained themselves from making Holocaust jokes, which I thought was a bit untrue to the vibe Weiner set up. Was he afraid of showing just how low and shallow the boys could be, was he afraid of getting flack himself, or did he displace that reflexive hatred onto the chickens and their lipstick hen party?<BR/><BR/>Either, having ad men thumb through concentration camp photos and EXODUS was a loaded pistol, and Weiner should have had the courage to take the shot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-41035136086230811192007-08-23T23:23:00.000-04:002007-08-23T23:23:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18351452512636422112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-29042297264502016742007-08-23T23:17:00.000-04:002007-08-23T23:17:00.000-04:00I think it was great. Didn't really cotton to the ...I think it was great. Didn't really cotton to the dream sequence that opened things, but the rest of the episode was gravy. DeWitt was at the top of her game, as were Siff and Hendricks, who's still a bit of a cartoon but at least we know what Joan does when she's not being a queen bee. <BR/><BR/>I liked the discussion of Israel and tourism, and how people reacted to the idea of that country. Made me think quite a bit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com