tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post6212156134646266163..comments2024-03-28T18:01:28.997-04:00Comments on What's Alan Watching?: Mad Men, "The Fog": Waiting for my real life to beginAlan Sepinwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comBlogger280125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-50852664042160198342010-02-21T06:16:17.620-05:002010-02-21T06:16:17.620-05:00In the final shot, there is a subtle visual clue, ...In the final shot, there is a subtle visual clue, to a clever theme that runs through this episode.<br /><br />As Betty pauses on landing, the light through the banister railing, creates a set of bars on her back.<br /><br />The way she pauses in that spot, and the careful nature of the shot, as well as the use of a Prison Guard in the episode, clearly allude to her feelings of being trapped in the marriage.<br /><br />I also wonder why the Prison Guard drops his head as he later meets Don in the corridor. Is it because he doesn't want to be reminded of the promise he made in his drunken state?<br /><br />Either way, this again, creates the sense that Don is visiting Betty in her Prison, and the shot of her waving to Don and Children from the window, seems to reinforce this subtle theme.Diddenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07831155602063520351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-1654157538192095552009-09-23T16:09:42.138-04:002009-09-23T16:09:42.138-04:00Alan: Thanks for answering (!)Alan: Thanks for answering (!)jenaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17454223874257032929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-53970506524105198252009-09-22T19:30:49.344-04:002009-09-22T19:30:49.344-04:00f_l you called it about Sally and baby Eugene. Ama...f_l you called it about Sally and baby Eugene. Amazing.<br /><br />I completely understand Don’s revulsion and being reminded forever of the mutual animosity with Gene, yet it’s quite nice to see Betty putting her foot down for something she cares about. Does she have any regrets for harshly rebuffing her dad’s attempts to tell to her about his funeral arrangements? It would be like her to externalize any criticism. <br /><br />I thought Don was more than a pretty good dad to Sally. Is it true that he isn’t sure he wants the role of husband and father? I think he feels more comfortable as father than husband. My husband disagrees with me on this but based, again, on the resemblance to the SLAA founder, I think Don is a sex and love addict of sorts. Being faithful to Betty is extremely hard for him. There's always the urge to fall in love with a new woman. <br /><br />And of course he never tells Betty who he really is (disclosing the beatings and their effects is all we’ve seen him share) whereas he told Rachel that his mother was a prostitute. No wonder he was ready to run away with her, he could actually tell her something of who he really is, more than he’s ever told Betty. (I loved Rachel. I liked her not-standard-American beauty—Betty epitomizes all American beauty in a very vulnerably girlish mode; she’s extremely lovely too,in the opposite way—I liked that Rachel shared painful events from her past with Don right away. Her pain is part of her self-concept and part of her understanding of how intimacy evolves.) <br /><br />What does: “where the chipmunks yell at Smitty” mean? Are the guys the chipmunks? I guess i should know, but who's last name is Smith (therefore Smitty)?<br /><br />And since we now know that Connie is Connie Hilton, I guess that means he’s Paris Hilton’s ancestor?<br /><br />Good comments on iron horse and mastadon. Thanks Anonymous. <br /><br />And I agree with Alan, it’s not all bad between Betty and Don. That “lavender haze” he felt for her at first hasn’t gone completely. It’s the strain of secrecy and his urge toward infidelity, plus the lack of communication. But there is a connection in that they are both sexy, witty people and they both want desperately to make their marriage and family happy, but don’t know how. <br /><br />Just reviewed the rules. Does no spoilers mean no predictions? I was so impressed with f_l’s insight into what would happen next with Sally, I’m tempted to share something that I predict might happen with a different character. But I will keep it to myself until someone clarifies whether predictions are spoilers.jenaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17454223874257032929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-8023312980974775832009-09-22T01:29:32.946-04:002009-09-22T01:29:32.946-04:00another small element that i felt underscored bett...another small element that i felt underscored betty's ambivalence toward her family was how ready she was to hand over her new son to her neighbor/ friend (& former House cast member) - like all she wanted was for someone to 'take him off her hands'.jphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15266114353868640382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-77902465524020618522009-09-21T01:18:19.885-04:002009-09-21T01:18:19.885-04:00They call the lawnmower an "iron horse" ...They call the lawnmower an "iron horse" in the first scene. That's the title of a Ginsberg poem about Vietnam. The phrase refers to trains. I think they also called the mower a "mastodon," the name of a famous train (thanks Wikipedia!). Not sure what to make of that, except that in Westerns trains symbolize the unstoppable and destructive onrush of modernity, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-23185881235912356082009-09-19T13:04:11.515-04:002009-09-19T13:04:11.515-04:00Anonymous, sorry to hear you were a victim of twil...Anonymous, sorry to hear you were a victim of twilight sleep. It sounds awful and in your case the amnesia part didn't even work. I had often wondered why women of your generation would comment that they didn't remember the childbirth experience and this episode helped clarify that. The twilight sleep, isolation, shaving, enema, all just more examples of the very poor treatment of women back in the day. <br /><br />Interesting point that Betty sensed the attraction between her husband and the teacher. She has said on more than one occasion that she "tries not to think" about "it." "It" referred to the Cuban Missile Crisis; she said that in the bar in that episode. Then when the stranger who ultimately touched her belly at the garden party, asked her how it felt to be pregnant and she said it again. So Betty tries not to think about certain things and in fact, seems to be pretty good at compartmentalizing, but she no doubt senses things even if she denies herself the luxury of thinking about it.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12705788002352470163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-33071585105691521332009-09-19T12:41:23.335-04:002009-09-19T12:41:23.335-04:00wildflowermaven, I agree that Olive does think ver...wildflowermaven, I agree that Olive does think very highly of Peggy. We saw this in their conversations in My Kentucky Home. I agree her maternal attitude toward Peggy could be interpreted as a lack of respect. There were some places in that episode where Olive did cross the line...offering opinions, suggesting what Peggy should do, etc. I think she meant it in a kind way, but it was a bit condescending and showed that Olive did not know her "place" as secretaries back in the day should. Peggy is her superior, and in spite of the age difference, Olive should defer more. BTW, I love the Olive character and hope to see more of her. As a former secretary myself, I enjoy the times when we get to see this women.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12705788002352470163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-81550088533809572162009-09-18T23:40:16.200-04:002009-09-18T23:40:16.200-04:00Dave...(et al)
I am surprised no one has correctl...<i>Dave...(et al)</i><br /><br />I am surprised no one has correctly identified the snack Don prepared and shared with Sally.<br /><br />Don is from Pennsylvania <i>(remember?</i>) and so has probably prepared a Pennsylvania Dutch favorite: <b>Scrapple</b>. <br /><br />I won't describe its ingredients, but it would certainly be a staple on a poor farm breakfast menu. I have included a link to the wiki page if you are of a mind to know more....<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapplegreytonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16011928850908138108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-39963011637104225112009-09-18T18:11:52.738-04:002009-09-18T18:11:52.738-04:00p.s. to imamarilyn: I meant good observations in b...p.s. to imamarilyn: I meant good observations in both your comments (Betty's accepting and seeming to understand that's she learning something important about him reaction to don's disclosure of being beaten as a kid), and then a good theory that she would accept the real Don / Dick and in fact it would be a relief to her to give up, as a couple, the illusion of perfection she forces on herself.<br /><br />There's too much good stuff on this blog and not enough time. I've got submissions to get in the mail, 9-5 housemates who dislike it when us stay at home folks compete with them for the laundry room weekends, and a sunny day that is passing me by, so that's all for now. Way too much good stuff on this blog to keep up. You could write paragraphs just about Hollis in that elevator scene and the ideas and emotions he conveyed.jenaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17454223874257032929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-73013602753589034342009-09-18T18:01:48.316-04:002009-09-18T18:01:48.316-04:00Imamarilyn wrote:
a) “I don't believe Don sha...Imamarilyn wrote:<br /><br />a) “I don't believe Don shares things with Betty the way he did with Miss Farrell or Dennis or Connie, to name just a few of the more recent strangers in his life. He finds it easy to be intimate with strangers, while at the same time having virtually no intimacy with his wife.”<br /><br />b) “One of the barriers to intimacy in the Draper marriage is Don's secret. I think after the initial shock wore off, she would accept him as Dick/Don. One of the few tender moments I saw from Betty is after she pressed Don to spank Bobby and Don told her why he wasn't going to do that, that his father beat him and caused him to fantasize about murdering him. She replied, "I didn't know that." and I saw a side of Betty we rarely glimpse. She pressures herself to be perfect and it woukd free her to know the truth about her husband.”<br /><br />Great (a) observation and (b) speculation. I'd like to think that it's true, that communicating would help this stunted and blocked couple. As you observed, Don does know how to open up, just not where is matters most. (And bye the bye, wasn't it insensitive of him to blow off Sally's feeling that the room is grandma Gene's room? He's not always the tuned in dad, only sometimes.jenaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17454223874257032929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-20880869400392456562009-09-18T17:35:51.795-04:002009-09-18T17:35:51.795-04:00To chip:
I think dez and i both have it right: D...To chip: <br /><br />I think dez and i both have it right: Dennis simply felt he'd opened up too much to Don. It will always be a bit of an enigma 9as being snubbed always is) but that seems the most likely explanation. The very common feeling of embarassment regarding emotional disclosure.jenaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17454223874257032929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-31797415732532670322009-09-18T17:33:34.440-04:002009-09-18T17:33:34.440-04:00What to make of the way Dennis treated Don in the ...What to make of the way Dennis treated Don in the hallway?Chipnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-27721148170904960862009-09-18T15:31:15.576-04:002009-09-18T15:31:15.576-04:00I'm a member of Betty Draper's generation,...I'm a member of Betty Draper's generation, but not someone who would have been admitted to the country club. I've thought about the comments people have made about her recoiling at the touch of the teacher. It wasn't just because the early sixties weren't a touchy feely time, I<br />think she could sense the teacher's attraction to her husband. Of course she would recoil.<br /><br />Twilight sleep, that horrid concoction of scopalamine and morphine did not always work as advertised. When I was given it, it did not relieve pain just made me disoriented so I didn't know where I was and why I was in agony and obviously to this day I don't have amnesia about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-41706069261393008692009-09-18T14:03:52.044-04:002009-09-18T14:03:52.044-04:00I agree that Betty most likely would not be able t...I agree that Betty most likely would not be able to get past the deception if she found out the truth--how would any of us feel if we had lived with someone for 10 years while they lied about who they are? If they had a great marriage in all other respects maybe, but not the way it is. My guess is that Don would be very upset when finding out about Betty's cheating, but in the end, he'd deal. He can't be too righteous about that. <br />And speaking of Peggy, one jarring note for me was when Peggy told Don her secretary didn't respect her as she didn't make that much more than her. I got the impression that Olive if anything thinks too much of Peggy, although maybe Peggy interpreted her mothering attitude as disrespect. Or maybe it was just a ploy to bolster her request for a raise.wildflowermavennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-42605454744002369012009-09-18T07:50:17.300-04:002009-09-18T07:50:17.300-04:00imamarilyn, wildrflowermaven, I'm not sure Bet...imamarilyn, wildrflowermaven, I'm not sure Betty *would* accept Don if he told her the truth. I don't think she has the emotional maturity to handle the news beyond the fact that she was embarressed and humiliated. This was the main issue she had with Bobbi - that others knew about it.<br /><br />She is very much about appearances and her place in society - as she was brought up to value those things. I also think that Betty would have a hard time accepting the flaws in her husband. Both she and Don have a need to idealise the other. An interesting question is how Don would feel if Betty disclosed her infidelities.happyfeetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-51901510538354199902009-09-17T16:47:29.055-04:002009-09-17T16:47:29.055-04:00wildflowermaven, I agree Peggy envies Don his fami...wildflowermaven, I agree Peggy envies Don his family as well. She wants it all, but ir's 1963 and she doesn't know how to make that happen yet. She told Olive she was going to have everything Olive wanted for her. Some women might choose career over family, but ultimately Peggy will find a way to make it all work for her.<br /><br />One of the barriers to intimacy in the Draper marriage is Don's secret. Jenae, I agree he fears Betty would be disgusted. I think after the initial shock wore off, she would accept him as Dick/Don. One of the few tender moments I saw from Betty is after she pressed Don to spank Bobby and Don told her why he wasn't going to do that, that his father beat him and caused him to fantasize about murdering him. She replied, "I didn't know that." and I saw a side of Betty we rarely glimpse. She pressures herself to be perfect and it woukd free her to know the truth about her husband.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12705788002352470163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-60267185255786508982009-09-17T15:48:34.680-04:002009-09-17T15:48:34.680-04:00I hope I haven't been too unappreciative of Be...I hope I haven't been too unappreciative of Betty. I agree with imamarylin and others that she is despite everything very intelligent (e.g. her conversation is an art speach). She might embrace gender roles changes if she learned that was possible. <br /><br />I think Pete would have said 'call me Pete" but he felt Hollis's effort to reestablish the boundary. He got thru the boundary gracefully by bringing up baseball, even made Hollis smile. <br /><br />I think Don (Don) saying "No one" after a phone call was bound to make Betty suspicious--and with reason! What he said to S. Farrell was "You're fine" in a way that was simulataneously empathetic and also very subtly sexy. I first realized how amazing M.M. is when I noticed that don reminds me a the founder of a group I spent a very helpful year dropping in on: SLAA (sex and love addicts anonymous--a good place to discuss relationship problems, even if you aren't an addict per se). the founder had not just sexual affairs but involving love affairs. that's Don all over, e.g. with Midge and Rachel. Now he's bonding over the experience of childhood grief with Suzzanne F., and simultaneously they are seducing one another. he's not just a guys who sleeps with women, he gets emotionally involved 9least of all with Bobby because he was trying to resist and also she lacked the soft spot and sense of depth he craves, which isn't to say she wasn't deep in her way--she gives wise advice to peggy kindly--but she and Don couldn't connect in the way that he finds most compelling. i agree that Don has some impressive "boxes" re; women, and yes I'm afraid S.F. fills them. If only he would take Betty off her pedestal, tell her who he actually is (no small thing, I know, he no doubt thinks she would run away indisgust if she knew) and actually relate to her (tell her 'what to do" for instance, that merry widow and garters she wore on V day makes it clear she wants to be a grown woman sexually).<br /><br />Great comments.jenaehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17454223874257032929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-64701155642362751582009-09-17T15:16:27.346-04:002009-09-17T15:16:27.346-04:00A couple of thoughts-was out of town so only saw t...A couple of thoughts-was out of town so only saw the episode last night--<br />I thought Peggy's comment to Don "You have everything, and so much of it", and the bootie fingering indicated that she not only desire's Don's money and position, but also his family. That isn't often mentioned about Peggy, that although she chose to give up her child, she does want to be a mother. Perhaps she'd like to have a Mr. Mom, a concept that wouldn't come into being for a long time yet.<br /><br />And I found it interesting that Betty recognized the name of the girl Sally pushed into the fountain and fought with. That she was the overweight child--the one the teacher said kids would stick pencils in her side as they thought she couldn't feel it. And Betty was relieved to hear Sally didn't do things like that. Both for reasons of decorum, and possibly as Betty can relate to the overweight girl, though she'd probably never admit it.wildflowermavennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-7147182343938794872009-09-17T08:47:46.826-04:002009-09-17T08:47:46.826-04:00Don's summary of the inmates versus the Yankee...Don's summary of the inmates versus the Yankees is, "Everyone in stripes." Last scene of the episode shows Betty with stripes on her back. She, like Don, is in a prison of her own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-15540661680683950522009-09-16T22:07:45.368-04:002009-09-16T22:07:45.368-04:00HUGE thank you to the 'Anonymous' who post...HUGE thank you to the 'Anonymous' who posted the link to Ebony magazine - I found so much there of interest in addition to the ads - three articles! Thanks again. The level of commenting here is impressive!Jennifer Lindsayhttp://jenniferlindsay.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-64088480786637441422009-09-16T21:11:43.146-04:002009-09-16T21:11:43.146-04:00Sally is, as my grandma would have said, "a p...Sally is, as my grandma would have said, "a pistol." I loved her comment to the girl at the water fountain, "Save some for the fish." Hard to believe she came from Don and Betty.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12705788002352470163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-15901233735332425622009-09-16T20:45:02.240-04:002009-09-16T20:45:02.240-04:00I've been fascinated by comments and hope to f...I've been fascinated by comments and hope to follow this blog now. I think MM is historically careful and does a wonderful job in character development. I want to respond to the reactions to the fathers' waiting room scene, having just published a book on the subject (Make Room for Daddy: The Journey from Waiting Room to Birthing Room). (http://www.amazon.com/Make-Room-Daddy-Journey-Birthing/dp/0807832553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253148078&sr=1-1) During the period when men were not allowed to be with their wives, they bonded in the waiting room in much the way Don and Dennis did in this episode--that is, sharing personal things in ways that might reveal a "feminine" side: showing introspection, making promises to improve and be responsible parents, and showing emotion and commitment to their families. They also wanted boys, and talked about that to one another and wrote about it journals from that period that I examined. Although this was a period when natural childbirth was becoming more popular and some couples were demanding to share labor together, most in 1963 were separated as Don and Betty were. To my mind there is no way Don's waiting room experience was a dream -- it is historically on the mark.jwlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02935487636456200455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-82962098632671470462009-09-16T19:02:02.176-04:002009-09-16T19:02:02.176-04:00I spent hours reading all these comments, and ther...I spent hours reading all these comments, and there were a lot of good ideas here. But one thing I haven't seen much talk about is how important Sally Draper is to this season.<br /><br />They planted seeds early on, when she sabotaged Don's suitcase and we see that she's missing Don. Betty obviously isn't fulfilling her emotional needs and Don is usually absent.<br /><br />Then they introduce Gene. And we think this is going to be first and foremost about Betty, or even about Gene himself (cringingly expecting from him something horribly inappropriate). But he dies and more than anything else, he was a vehicle for little Sally. Probably nobody else has ever heaped so much positive energy on her.<br /><br />Her teacher might, though. <br /><br />(Thought it was interesting how when Sally is upset about Gene's death, but Betty is busy at some kind of dinner party, she just sends Sally away. But now that there's some kind of trouble -- Oh, my father just died, and I'm pregnant, catch ya later.)<br /><br />Her teacher already knew who Gene was and was very concerned about his dying. It's ultimately Sally that's driving (lol) the teacher into the story through her empathy for her. By the way, I don't think Don was protecting Betty when he said the phone call was "no one" -- I think he was protecting the teacher, since Betty might not tolerate her calling the home but Don knows where she's coming from. I'm not totally convinced those two will get involved romantically, but if they do, it's obviously going to take a more serious turn than his previous flings. His daughter is already involved.<br /><br />Oh, even the newborn baby is tied back to Sally. Yes, it's his poor daughter Betty who wants to name him after Gene, but just as it was Betty who wanted him to move in, it's going to be Sally who bears the impact of that choice. Grandpa Gene's room, Grandpa Gene's name. I'm a little concerned how Sally will view the child.<br /><br />Peace out.f lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17762777751261010755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-1762656745850166212009-09-16T18:08:39.171-04:002009-09-16T18:08:39.171-04:00Laura V, that's an interesting point you bring...Laura V, that's an interesting point you bring up about the drinks Don offers going untouched. It reminds me of two instances, once with Sally and once with Peggy (and another poster mentioned one with, I believe, Betty) where Don tells them that "everything's going to be OK." <br /><br />Of course, we know everything is likely not going to be OK. Perhaps the rejected drinks and empty words foretell Don's diminishing control in these changing times.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15870223659127723992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-9973332967893076782009-09-16T15:46:53.345-04:002009-09-16T15:46:53.345-04:00happyfeet, great observations. It was hard to watc...happyfeet, great observations. It was hard to watch Betty in this episode. I have always felt very sad for her. Such a great portrait of a person totally out of touch with herself.<br /><br />I don't believe Don shares things with Betty the way he did with Miss Farrell or Dennis or Connie, to name just a few of the more recent strangers in his life. He finds it easy to be intimate with strangers, while at the same time having virtually no intimacy with his wife.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12705788002352470163noreply@blogger.com