tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post8685395206770592418..comments2024-03-25T19:18:14.047-04:00Comments on What's Alan Watching?: Dollhouse, "Needs": Caroline saysAlan Sepinwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-61665390958303833992009-04-11T19:16:00.000-04:002009-04-11T19:16:00.000-04:00I think viewers these days are very spoilt and lik...I think viewers these days are very spoilt and like to be treated stupid by having everything spelt out for them on the get go or we have grown very lazy.<BR/><BR/>I was aware that the beginning was very slow but as a Whedon fan I fully trusted that every detail in that show had a purpose toward a bigger picture. <BR/><BR/>Much like Huxley's 'A Brave New World' this television show explores an interesting social topic that should make the viewer think more deeply about their personal and social morals and ethical viewpoint and not solely as a piece of mindless entertainment. (I get enough of that from Gossip Girl and, a guilty pleasure of mine, Smallville).<BR/><BR/>Yes, the show gets 'icky' but never distasteful and it still shelters the viewers somewhat from the harsh realities of life. There are people out there right now who don't have the luxury of wiping their minds clean of traumatic experiences due to exploitation of some grievous kind. <BR/><BR/>As the show continues to develop, Whedon's world becomes clearer and the lines between good and evil get blurred. I feel there is a bigger story here than just the characters. They are just a tool to expose human fallacies. I personally do not think it wise to dwell too much on whether we like a character or not. It is still early days and as this is such a new topic for a tv series, I think we are still feeling out our own ethical viewpoints and the show doesn't make it that cut and dry (which is what I love about it). <BR/><BR/>If we had not seen the first few episodes and instead jumped right in, would we fully understand the world of the actives? The stage needs to be set before the story unfolds. Otherwise we miss nuances and character development. <BR/><BR/>I have come to trust Whedon in creating unique worlds in which to explore human behaviour. Every show so far I have seen of his have been unique and adventurous by todays standards. <BR/><BR/>I feel there are far too many crime dramas (of which I watch plenty aslo) and we are losing a lot of unique shows such as Pushing Daisies and Kyle XY and Whedon's Drive has also suffered the cancellation bug. <BR/><BR/>I find Whedon so refreshing and stimulating and I hope he finds a way to publish his works where he will never be at the mercy of networks again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-58705877060819098912009-04-07T19:40:00.000-04:002009-04-07T19:40:00.000-04:00Alan--thanks for sharing your interesting ideas.I ...Alan--thanks for sharing your interesting ideas.<BR/>I appreciate your discussion of the "ick" factor, and I think the comparison to the Sopranos is very appropriate. I have to say that I am with Stealth and LFL and think that a view from Tracee the stripper's point of view is a very good change of pace. <BR/><BR/>I like the way LFL put it that viewing the Sopranos from the POV of the powerful feels soulless. We sure do see a lot of that in films though.<BR/>The view from the POV of the weak FEELS "icky". Shouldn't violence feel icky? The fact that it often doesn't feel bad in films and TV seems to me the problem, not that fact that in this show it does feel creepy. <BR/><BR/>I read a lot of complaints about the interview bits from Man on the Street, but I thought they did a nice job of bringing across that idea. <BR/><BR/>James--I love that idea of this Dollhouse turning against the other Dollhouses. It would be sweet!SFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-82314576676892352262009-04-07T11:35:00.000-04:002009-04-07T11:35:00.000-04:00I'm with those who think the "5 years" is blowing ...I'm with those who think the "5 years" is blowing smoke. If the House really did plan to release the actives back into the general population at some point, why have an Attic? Why not just let them go early? I also assume with all the work the Dollhouse has to do to erase any traces of the actives' pasts, it would be nearly impossible to let them resume their previous lives.<BR/><BR/>Also has anyone yet raised the possibility that Ballard may actually be Alpha? (Notably he seems to have no family, close friends or any other connections to a deep past, and a fairly odd obsession with Caroline and the Dollhouseg). And would that twist just be too ridiculous if true?Peternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-60203749307370671782009-04-07T01:21:00.000-04:002009-04-07T01:21:00.000-04:00Hi Alan, thanks for sharing that interview excerpt...Hi Alan, thanks for sharing that interview excerpt. Regarding this being a show where most of the characters are terrible people: I noticed on second viewing of "Needs" that when Boyd and Saunders are talking near the end, Boyd says, "And Echo, she wanted to free us all." Is it weird that he used the word "us"? Does this mean some or all of the Dollhouse employees are not working there by choice? Would this be consistent with the information so far?Linushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05193090976864696940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-36880057382324329682009-04-07T00:38:00.000-04:002009-04-07T00:38:00.000-04:00"What I ask is if after those 5 years the Dollhous..."What I ask is if after those 5 years the Dollhouse will really release them. (and if they did, will their memory be intact?)"<BR/><BR/>They had a chance to address this when Echo/Caroline was asking Topher how long she'd been there, but the script chickened out of telling us an actual figure. If he'd said, say, six years, that would have had some heft to it.<BR/><BR/>Anyone else notice that Eliza Dushku has less and less to do as the show continues?Matter-Eater Ladhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07582100232490047227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-42371118004163691652009-04-06T14:08:00.000-04:002009-04-06T14:08:00.000-04:00I assumed that the horrible thing Caroline was try...I assumed that the horrible thing Caroline was trying to forget by volunteering herself to the Dollhouse was her boyfriend getting shot and killed in her flashback of the botched lab raid during "Echoes."<BR/><BR/>At this point, I began to consider that, perhaps, Caroline volunteered herself, not to forget, but to get inside the Dollhouse in order to take it down as an of act revenge - both a brash and bad idea. <BR/><BR/>By the way, do any of these actives have any family? If so, aren't they looking for them?hobbsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-27336189561071688132009-04-06T14:02:00.000-04:002009-04-06T14:02:00.000-04:00My brother thought of a way the show can last 5 se...My brother thought of a way the show can last 5 seasons. This Dollhouse is ultimately turned against the other Dollhouses by the head lady and it's sole mission is to destroy the corporation and its maintaining Houses. <BR/><BR/>That'd would be pretty sweet if that occurred.jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-79320895411274620292009-04-06T13:55:00.000-04:002009-04-06T13:55:00.000-04:00I think the ick factor is all intentional - we sho...I think the ick factor is all intentional - we should be horrified by what the actives are being used for, and we should be horrified with ourselves when we start empathizing with the Dollhouse management, solely because they are the only ones with personalities.<BR/><BR/>And I too think Topher is the mole - both because Whedon couldn't bear to have the smart aleck character be the most hated, and because his joining the rebellion solves the logistical issues of Echo & whomever getting new skill sets in their operations against the Dollhouse organization once they go free.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-27685271100695081012009-04-06T13:11:00.000-04:002009-04-06T13:11:00.000-04:00In the pilot, they said Ballard was assigned to th...In the pilot, they said Ballard was assigned to the case -- a long-standing FBI joke of sorts -- as punishment for taking several previous cases too far.Alan Sepinwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-1636762901523470172009-04-06T13:09:00.000-04:002009-04-06T13:09:00.000-04:00I could probably enjoy the 'mission of the week' f...I could probably enjoy the 'mission of the week' format. I've enjoyed several in the past that used that format. Quantum Leap is the closest that comes to mind. But I enjoy them a lot more with some sort of over reaching plot to tie them together.<BR/><BR/>We've been getting a little characterization each week. They're building Caroline through the flashbacks, though I can't say I like her all that much so far. I get the feeling that Caroline joined up with the Dollhouse partly to get out of the legal trouble she was in for sabotaging the lab, but I think being able to forget that she caused the death of her boyfriend type had a lot to do with it.<BR/><BR/>I suspect we'll be getting some back story on some of the other actives from her 'pod' now as well. Sierra has some story that's aching for resolution, and we haven't seen anything at all about Victor yet.<BR/><BR/>I think Ballard is also a lot deeper in this than has come to light so far. Have they said how he came to be aware of the Dollhouse? He was already on the trail in the pilot, and he didn't get the picture of Caroline until recently.Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02596905570836752275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-31822017200964340972009-04-06T12:21:00.000-04:002009-04-06T12:21:00.000-04:00I can't believe how disappointing this show turned...I can't believe how disappointing this show turned out to be. the missions could have been much more interesting than gross forced prostitution. eewww. I don't know if a stronger actress for Echo and a more realisitic Topher actor who wasn't too young and annoying would have made a difference. I give up on this show.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-7201579347620407652009-04-06T02:03:00.000-04:002009-04-06T02:03:00.000-04:00I think a compelling direction for the show would ...I think a compelling direction for the show would be to require a cognizant Caroline/Echo to "share" her mind with imprints to battle the other Dollhouses. The advantages of the programmed personalities is too great to ignore, and would do a lot to explore the nature of identity that Joss seemed to have such a craving for.<BR/><BR/>It'd also make the good guys worth following, for a change.Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09536292524392628317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-84459434268317648182009-04-06T01:00:00.000-04:002009-04-06T01:00:00.000-04:00I am about to give up on this show.I've only kept ...I am about to give up on this show.<BR/><BR/>I've only kept up with it because it's Joss Whedon. The only interesting character is the FBI Agent. <BR/><BR/>If I don't find the next two or three episodes to be compelling, I'm done.Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-81829116728607776032009-04-05T23:27:00.000-04:002009-04-05T23:27:00.000-04:00BigTed -- talented people? Umm... for God's sakes ...BigTed -- talented people? Umm... for God's sakes one of the writers worked on Bionic Woman! How is that a sign of talent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-17495687077861515592009-04-05T23:20:00.000-04:002009-04-05T23:20:00.000-04:00Ballard bringing the dollhouse down? is that what ...Ballard bringing the dollhouse down? is that what you´re looking forward to? that´s ridiculous, this show is very complex and ambiguous, is not good versus evil, caroline is not a helpless victim dominated by monsters...<BR/>the show discusses issues that should be conected to our own lives, like how much free will do we actually have? are we self-aware? how many times we become diferent persons to please other people? joss said something like ' how much is real and how much we project or imagine"...<BR/>this is a Joss show folks, remember angel, on its fifth season angel had not defeated wolfram and hart but became the "boss" of it. It´s likely that Ballard or even self-aware Caroline will end up working for the dollhouse.<BR/>I would like to see the dollhouse grow bigger instead of going down, and I also think Adelle has a good purpose to what she´s doing underneath the surfaceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-76308037619214047442009-04-05T23:19:00.000-04:002009-04-05T23:19:00.000-04:00Ballard bringing the dollhouse down? is that what ...Ballard bringing the dollhouse down? is that what you´re looking forward to? that´s ridiculous, this show is very complex and ambiguous, is not good versus evil, caroline is not a helpless victim dominated by monsters...<BR/>the show discusses issues that should be conected to our own lives, like how much free will do we actually have? are we self-aware? how many times we become diferent persons to please other people? joss said something like ' how much is real and how much we project or imagine"...<BR/>this is a Joss show folks, remember angel, on its fifth season angel had not defeated wolfram and hart but became the "boss" of it. It´s likely that Ballard or even self-aware Caroline will end up working for the dollhouse.<BR/>I would like to see the dollhouse grow bigger instead of going down, and I also thinks Adelle has a good purpose to what she´s doing underneath the surfaceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-70740443284053453722009-04-05T18:49:00.000-04:002009-04-05T18:49:00.000-04:00I think the Dollhouse is going to have some seriou...I think the Dollhouse is going to have some serious staff problems once word gets out that they let one of their own security agents get knocked out by an Active. (At least, I don't think Victor killed the guard.)<BR/><BR/>Ewww - word verification is "bortion"....Toby O'Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06999037844031101965noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-19889375086143196482009-04-05T08:09:00.000-04:002009-04-05T08:09:00.000-04:00This show is beginning to make me think of Spike L...This show is beginning to make me think of Spike Lee's Bamboozled. I picture Joss in a room full of FOX executives, pitching good story ideas, all of which are rejected. Then, in an attempt to get FOX to leave him alone, he proposes the most outrageous thing he can think of: a house full of mind-wiped prostitutes. And FOX loves the idea, and now Joss is stuck making it. <BR/><BR/>The interview excerpts Alan posted here seem to support my theory. Joss calls Sierra's backstory "appalling" and admits that parts of the show make him "uncomfortable."Traceynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-56738456181616421002009-04-05T06:38:00.000-04:002009-04-05T06:38:00.000-04:00I don't think Sierra's closure was confronting Nol...I don't think Sierra's closure was confronting Nolan, or she would have passed out immediately after leaving his apartment. And I don't think Victor's closure was unclear, either. Those two passed out immediately after kissing each other. Given Victor's growing attraction to Sierra, even when in his completely wiped state, I've got to assume there was some relationship between the two of them in their pre-Dollhouse existence, and that that kiss meant something more to them than the culmination of their sympathetic attraction during the Experiment.<BR/><BR/>Nolan was truly loathsome, a true sadist--that final "Now it will be even better" was simply chilling. But I have to say I was happy to see that actor, Vincent Ventresca--I loved him in the short-lived series "The Invisible Man."<BR/><BR/>I'm confused about Mike's participation in the Experiment. Had he been glitching, too? Or was he "revived" simply to be dragged away in sight of the four real glitchers, in order to strengthen their resolve?Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01288100796201737845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-38996358967610177432009-04-05T03:58:00.000-04:002009-04-05T03:58:00.000-04:00As far as the comparison between "Dollhouse" and "...As far as the comparison between "Dollhouse" and "The Sopranos," I thought "The Sopranos" was almost flawlessly executed - beautifully written, shot, acted and directed -- but the fact that it focused only on the bad guys and not on their victims made it feel soulless to me. I couldn't keep watching after season 3 either. If only it <B>had</B> focused on people like Tracee the stripper me, I might have found it to be a transcendant show.<BR/><BR/>"Dollhouse," on the other hand, isn't anywhere near as well acted, shot, written and directed as "The Sopranos." It does, however, have soul.<BR/><BR/>At the moment I am still watching. Whether or not I will continue to depends on how much its technical aspects continue to improve.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06329119769722713440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-48157950948573753222009-04-05T03:02:00.000-04:002009-04-05T03:02:00.000-04:00My guess is that Topher himself is the mole, and t...My guess is that Topher himself is the mole, and that the reason we always see him sending the assistant off on menial errands is that she's the only one who could catch him altering the programming to create all of these "glitches" in his attempt to take the Dollhouse down. Alpha was his first attempt, but went horribly wrong, so now he's going about it differently. <BR/><BR/>Or maybe I'm just hoping that's true because it would mean the character's insufferability is a clever ruse and the producers don't expect me to find him charming.<BR/><BR/>Though I have to admit I've only seen a smattering of "Sopranos" episodes over the years, I agree with Stealth. I don't think the fact that the show made the villainous characters sympathetic at the expense of their victims somehow makes it morally superior to "Dollhouse." If anything, I give "Dollhouse" credit for managing to create that level of discomfort. I don't really think we're *supposed* to identify with the characters.<BR/><BR/>Except Echo and the other dolls, of course, but for whatever reason, I find Echo/Caroline hard to like. It would be much more compelling if Sierra were the heroine of the show.DJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-27457309469839304892009-04-05T01:09:00.000-04:002009-04-05T01:09:00.000-04:00This episode was my favorite to date, by a conside...This episode was my favorite to date, by a considerable margin. <BR/><BR/>The awakening scene reminded me a bit of the classic Twilight Zone episode "Five Characters in Search of an Exit." Once they began their escape, I felt for the first time that I could really relate to the dolls, with the possible exception of Dushku who I continue to find sadly miscast. I'm a lot more interested in Victor now, for one, than I ever was when he was a Russian mobster, or a doll with hard-on in the shower.<BR/><BR/>The story played out with a couple of twists I didn't see coming, including the introduction of a truly nasty piece of work in Nolan. I can't remember another isntance in which an actor was able to build up so much audience hatred in so little screen time.<BR/><BR/>I was a bit disappointed that we had a loaded gun pointed at Topher for so long yet missed the chance to see him taken out of our collective misery. (Topher's assistant Ivy is the mole, right?)<BR/><BR/>Plus, I have a soft spot for any script that can name-drop Mookie Wilson.<BR/><BR/>Count me among those really, really don't want to see a return to straightforward mission-based episodes next week.SRnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-71491431227218837022009-04-05T00:13:00.000-04:002009-04-05T00:13:00.000-04:00The past few episodes have definitely been more in...The past few episodes have definitely been more interesting, enough so for me to keep watching it for a while. Still not sure how long they can extend the series. A series mentioned by an earlier poster, The Prisoner, managed only 17 episodes covering a lot of the same territory before McGoohan and the producers felt they had exhausted all the possibilites of the concept. Number 6 may have been more aware of his situation, but like Echo, he was at the center of a massive international conspiracy, always monitored on video, and occasionally brainwashed (combinations of drugs and hi-tech machines) into assuming new personities/realities. Not to mention that it was difficult for him (and the viewers) to decide who, if anyone, was on his side.<BR/><BR/>Another series that Dollhouse makes me think of sometimes is Dark Angel. That show also featured an organization with major financial and technical resources and an army of attractive young adults with artifically enhanced skills. As some earlier posters have suggested, the focus of Dollhouse could shift to a plotline where the actives work to take down the organization, the way that Max and her friends were looking to expose and/or destroy Manticore. <BR/><BR/>What would help me get into this series more would be if I actually cared about any of the characters. So far that hasn't happened. For now I'll settle for curiosity about the mysteries surrounding the Dollhouse, but if that ceases to be interesting, I'll probably find something else to do with that hour each week.arrabbiatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11320373982505010164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-68208737819035453062009-04-04T20:40:00.000-04:002009-04-04T20:40:00.000-04:00The Sierra story bothered me beyond my normal view...The Sierra story bothered me beyond my normal viewer comfort zone. But worse, for some reason, was the reset of the characters. <BR/><BR/>Now that they've gotten their "closure", each one is more a victim than ever. Any progress towards escape, towards establishing themselves as anything other than slaves, has been lost. <BR/><BR/>Who is there to root for then? Victor, who no longer cares that Sierra goes to sleep peacefully? Sierra who doesn't remember that she's regularly brutalized and no longer aware that she's a slave? <BR/><BR/>I deliberately leave out Echo. I have a strong distaste for Caroline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-844452609099881602009-04-04T17:21:00.000-04:002009-04-04T17:21:00.000-04:00Even if every other doll is someone like Echo or N...<I>Even if every other doll is someone like Echo or November who needs to forget their old life for a while as much as they need the money, even if Sierra is somehow the only slave in the bunch (which I doubt), that's still one slave too many, and shows how easily and horribly the technology could be abused. </I><BR/><BR/>This comes close to how I feel about the Dollhouse at the moment. My guess would be that the whole thing is somewhat analogous to the situation on Miranda in Whedon's film Serenity (the planet where 99% of the population of the planet had been made docile, and the rest were Reavers) - i.e. even if the people doing this believe themselves to be doing good, they are (as Mal put it) working under the belief that "they can make people better. And I do not hold to that."A Nonny Mousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299115662973012452noreply@blogger.com