tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post8927853666848832900..comments2024-03-25T19:18:14.047-04:00Comments on What's Alan Watching?: Lost, "Ji Yeon": Baby daddyAlan Sepinwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-80107898790208411132010-01-06T17:53:20.969-05:002010-01-06T17:53:20.969-05:00I know this post is nearly 2 years old, but I rece...I know this post is nearly 2 years old, but I recently started watching Lost (like a month or so ago - just burning through the episodes through Netflix's on-demand service), and I almost screamed when I saw Michael. I have been avoiding all the spoilers (really hard to do), and I never notice the credits.SJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01245472084190224186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-40133339720933484462008-03-18T10:40:00.000-04:002008-03-18T10:40:00.000-04:00Er, I meant Sun in the first part of my post just ...Er, I meant Sun in the first part of my post just above. The conversation between Sun and Juliet also annoyed me, in the sense of -- "Hey, why don't you tell your secret plans to the ONE PERSON who will definitely try to stop you!" That's snappy writing! <BR/><BR/>As for Jin still being alive, yeah, I agree, if that's true, than the graveyard scene is even more manipulative than it was at first glance. <BR/><BR/>The only reason I'm so hard on this ep is because I know -- look at other episode that just aired this season -- it can do SO much better, and give us time manipulations that lead to real emotional revelations that feel earned and moving. <BR/><BR/>This was just a jerrybuilt, tricksy plot. As Tim Gunn would say, "You can do better."Mo Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01685367085407381479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-50639970917206715852008-03-18T04:45:00.000-04:002008-03-18T04:45:00.000-04:00If Jin's still alive, that would make what Mo very...If Jin's still alive, that would make what Mo very accurately described as a "cheap, crappy, manipulative trick" even more meaningless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-19306743228325349762008-03-17T13:10:00.000-04:002008-03-17T13:10:00.000-04:00I'm one of those who believes Jin is still alive o...I'm one of those who believes Jin is still alive on the island. I think that the Oceanic 6 basically sold their souls to the devil (aka Ben Linus) in order to get off the island, and are part of a huge cover-up. <BR/><BR/>Jin said he would do "anything" to protect Sun and the baby, and I believe the sacrifice he made was to stay on the island and let the rest of the world believe he is dead. So for all intents and purposes "he is dead" and Sun believes he will never see his baby girl. So her grief is very real.<BR/><BR/>I think as we move forward each of the Oceanic 6 is going to need a reason to want to go back to the island. If Jin were truly dead, Sun would have no reason to go back. And she certainly wouldn't risk her life or the baby's for anyone other than the man she loves.<BR/><BR/>I also felt that Hurley taking Sun to the grave felt staged. His tone seemed to indicate that they "should" go see Jin (as if people were watching to see what the Oceanic 6 widow would do).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-53742313843430868332008-03-17T00:45:00.000-04:002008-03-17T00:45:00.000-04:00Late to the party (the party's over, but ...)Cheap...Late to the party (the party's over, but ...)<BR/><BR/>Cheap, crappy, manipulative trick. I'm sure it sounded cool in the writers room, but it absolutely left me feeling manipulated in the most inorganic way possible. Instead of feeling sad during the cemetery scene, I was complaining about the mechanical trickery that went into this plot. <BR/><BR/>And as Alan and others have pointed out -- they need not resort to such stunts. They can evoke emotion any number of real and interesting ways. To do so with such a gimmicky plot should be beneath Season 4 Lost, except, er, I guess it's not. Harumph. <BR/><BR/>I was annoyed from the word go because right from the start, Jin is telling secret stuff (that they're going to Locke's camp) to someone she does NOT trust! Duh! Why would she tell Juliet anything instead of booking the hell out of there? Because the plot requires her to tell Juliet. Not because it makes any damn sense for her to do so. Seriously - vitamins? They could not think of a better way for Juliet to gain that information? That's just lazy writing. <BR/><BR/>And I've never been on the Jin/Sun bandwagon, so all in all, aside from the good work those two actors did in their scenes together, I give this a rousing, irritated, nearly ornery "meh."Mo Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01685367085407381479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-66460050247386865202008-03-16T18:43:00.000-04:002008-03-16T18:43:00.000-04:00Scott, I think people were harsh on this episode b...Scott, I think people were harsh on this episode because Jin's flashback added nothing to the story. It didn't teach us anything new about him and it didn't reveal anything new. Its sole purpose was to trick us into thinking he got off the island, so they could surprise us with news of his death, and that's kinda cheap storytelling.<BR/><BR/>I can forgive them about the Michael reveal however - because really the reason why seem to all have expected it is because we spend so much effort looking up every little news tidbit and discuss so heavily about the show. Sure I guess the writers could have anticipated it and handled it differently, but for the people who don't obsess over the show, it may have been a nice surprise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-76767293034246492632008-03-15T19:29:00.000-04:002008-03-15T19:29:00.000-04:00Patrick, you made me laugh out loud. this is for y...Patrick, you made me laugh out loud. this is for you, from James<BR/>poniewozik's blog:<BR/>"I guessed quickly that Sun was in a flash-forward and Jin in a<BR/>flashback, but to be fair, it was one of several theories we were<BR/>shouting at the TV in the Tuned In household over the course<BR/>of the episode:<BR/>* Sun and Jin were both in flash-forwards, but Jin had left her, and<BR/>was bringing the panda to someone else's baby<BR/>* Sun and Jin were both in flashbacks, and had lost a baby, of which we were previously unaware<BR/>* Jin was in a flashback and had a secret baby with another woman--which was why he so quickly forgave Sun's infidelity<BR/>* Sun and Jin were together in the future, but someone--Dharma, Ben,<BR/>Widmore, etc.--was going to steal their newborn baby, through the<BR/>"substitute" doctor who was actually their agent<BR/>This is how paranoid Lost makes you."franhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17877785572454117720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-45238132443673558942008-03-15T16:41:00.000-04:002008-03-15T16:41:00.000-04:00Alan wrote: "Well, I guess it depends on when that...Alan wrote: <I>"Well, I guess it depends on when that tombstone was erected. If it was put up after the crash when everyone was presumed dead, then having the date of death as the date of the crash doesn't negate your potential scenario. But if it was put up later, than the death date would imply that, for whatever reason, Jin isn't one of the two people who allegedly survived the crash and died later."</I><BR/><BR/>It seems to me it has to be put up post-crash, otherwise Sun's date-of-death would be on it too -- and if they did put a post-crash/pre-rescue headstone up, then Sun had it changed when she got back, and one has to wonder why she didn't change Jin's Date of Death then to something that allows him to have impregnated her...<BR/><BR/>I also think Jin is dead dead dead. Otherwise there's no reason for the charade of going to the gravesite if it was a fake... Sun could weep to Island Jin in the privacy of her own apartment....Jeff K.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06066184275506238731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-39190001228100148032008-03-15T11:20:00.000-04:002008-03-15T11:20:00.000-04:00Jin is alive on the island but Sun and the other m...Jin is alive on the island but Sun and the other members of thO6 believe he is dead.Siddharth M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16106439271492628550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-25801771132147322792008-03-15T09:46:00.000-04:002008-03-15T09:46:00.000-04:00Maybe I'm just losing it, but I don't remember the...Maybe I'm just losing it, but I don't remember the Others just randomly abandoning the idea of playing "primitive" roles. From what I recall, they were 'found out' and just abandoned the whole idea because what would be the point?<BR/><BR/>Remember Kate telling beard guy that she had found their disguises? So, it wasn't just dropped by the writers...it was discovered by some of the Losties that the Others were faking it.<BR/><BR/>As for the button pushing...they missed pushing the button, but Desmond turned the key...which did something. We never did find out exactly what the key turning did/meant. So, there was no reason to worry about button pushing anymore. But, at the time, it *was* important. And Locke found out too late how important it was.<BR/><BR/>So I don't see how the writers have abandoned anything that existed in the first season or later. All of it seems pretty consistent to me. And since we have yet to get an explanation for everything, I think there is room to fill in the gaps in the next few seasons to make things fit together.<BR/><BR/>The writers are playing by some sort of ground rules. Probably some pretty loose rules, so that they can have a number of outcomes/plots.K J Gillenwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12023089365553324315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-73730804584975819592008-03-15T03:10:00.000-04:002008-03-15T03:10:00.000-04:00It never occurred to me that Jin's story was a fla...It never occurred to me that Jin's story was a flashback. I thought he was buying the panda for Sun, then when it turned out not to be for her, I thought "Oh, Jin's an asshole again." Then I thought "Oh, they broke up, and Jin's remarried." Finally, at the very end, I thought "Ooooh, Jin faked his death."<BR/><BR/>*sigh*<BR/><BR/>I'm not very good at this game.pgillanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08627255978843800751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-31313136938004681872008-03-15T01:46:00.000-04:002008-03-15T01:46:00.000-04:00Has anyone ever thought that maybe Ben can time tr...Has anyone ever thought that maybe Ben can time travel (like Des, but better) and that's why he knows everything that's going on about, well, everything? Just a theory....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-17096051723527461172008-03-15T01:15:00.000-04:002008-03-15T01:15:00.000-04:00I think Jin is alive and still on the island.I think Jin is alive and still on the island.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-65691874022506420662008-03-15T00:18:00.000-04:002008-03-15T00:18:00.000-04:00I sure hope Jin isn't truly dead. I love him and h...<I>I sure hope Jin isn't truly dead. I love him and his character arc.</I><BR/><BR/>I keep hoping the writers aren't married to this future, that something can happen on the island that will change it. Because I really, REALLY don't want Jin to be dead.<BR/><BR/>Damn this show!<BR/><BR/>(Oh, and damn my state for mandating Amber Alerts show up onscreen every 15 minutes while the alert is in effect, and damn my cable company for making them so big that they take up the entire screen.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-34582357839415570602008-03-14T22:51:00.000-04:002008-03-14T22:51:00.000-04:00@Siddhartha: "1) Can any of our Korean-reading fel...@Siddhartha: "1) Can any of our Korean-reading fellow Alan-ites tell us what Jin's marker said? There were 3 dates on that marker so I think it might be a marker commemorating both Sun's and Jin's supposed death on the crash."<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://the-odi.blogspot.com/2008/03/episode-4x07-ji-yeon-jins-tombstone.html" REL="nofollow">An explanation/translation of Jin's tombstone.</A> The leftmost date appears to be Sun's birthdate.afogliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02820361829972093800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-63868325615707658692008-03-14T22:45:00.000-04:002008-03-14T22:45:00.000-04:00@Ginny: "The first thing I thought was weird, was,...@Ginny: "The first thing I thought was weird, was, why are Sun & Jin back in Korea?"<BR/><BR/>Sun wanted to stay in Korea. She said so to Jin earlier this season. He wanted to move to the US, but she didn't.<BR/><BR/>Struck me as odd though. You'd think they'd both want to get away from her dad.afogliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02820361829972093800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-42499941966831816872008-03-14T21:41:00.000-04:002008-03-14T21:41:00.000-04:00Wow, I'm surprised by how harsh everyone is being ...Wow, I'm surprised by how harsh everyone is being on this episode which I thought was stunning. The Lost writers have an undeniable talent for delivering heart-wrenching emotional scenes and this episode was full of them.<BR/><BR/>We all knew that Charlie was going to die and they still managed to write his death – exactly as Desmond had told us – in a way that drew tears from even the coldest heart.<BR/><BR/>What also bothers me is constant complaints about the Michael reveal, some of which come in the same breath as a complaint about the flashback/forward twist being gimmicky. I suspect that the same people would be complaining that Michael being revealed in a more surprising fashion would have been another example of Lost writers manipulating the audience. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. The nature of the interest in the show meant that we were always going to know that Harold Perrineau was coming back and guessing in what form didn't bother me. Bottom line, I was more interested in seeing Sayid's reaction (how perfectly judged on the writer's part was that).<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I've said enough already. I just think sometimes people become overly critical of Lost because their expectations are so ridiculous that they don't see the wood for the trees. Amazing episode, brilliantly written and performed, but moan moan moan. Didn't you learn anything when you jumped ship to Heroes last year?Scott Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03047442863207504834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-35906630385589121922008-03-14T21:18:00.000-04:002008-03-14T21:18:00.000-04:00WHO'S IN THE COFFIN!?!?!?!?!That must be the last ...WHO'S IN THE COFFIN!?!?!?!?!<BR/>That must be the last Six or someone from jack's past... who knows.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-84468692766053944692008-03-14T19:54:00.000-04:002008-03-14T19:54:00.000-04:00Was Jin sent to the past?Maybe then just think he'...Was Jin sent to the past?<BR/>Maybe then just think he's dead and his memory is erased right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-74425727178342496142008-03-14T19:45:00.000-04:002008-03-14T19:45:00.000-04:00Also, Aaron being alive pretty much means that Cla...Also, Aaron being alive pretty much means that Claire had to have been one of the two "Oceanic 8" who "died" before being rescued.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15001530336692435773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-35616982269165444882008-03-14T19:20:00.000-04:002008-03-14T19:20:00.000-04:00Well, I guess it depends on when that tombstone wa...Well, I guess it depends on when that tombstone was erected. If it was put up after the crash when everyone was presumed dead, then having the date of death as the date of the crash doesn't negate your potential scenario. But if it was put up later, than the death date would imply that, for whatever reason, Jin isn't one of the two people who allegedly survived the crash and died later. <BR/><BR/>It had to have been put up after the Oceanic Six were rescued, otherwse Sun's death date of 9-22-04 would have been on the tombstone as wellKim Cosmopolitanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024484258589222017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-22052401467905039812008-03-14T19:15:00.000-04:002008-03-14T19:15:00.000-04:00The first thing I thought was weird, was, why are ...The first thing I thought was weird, was, why are Sun & Jin back in Korea? Why didn't they go to Albuquerque? And, yes, I noticed his hair. New,improved Jin would keep his new,improved hair, wouldn't he? But,of course,had Sun been in America then the fakeout wouldn't have worked. And from a female perspective, how 'bout that dopey doctor Sun had? You need an emergency c-section! Oh, wait. Here comes the baby now! Whoops! Agree that karma was pestering Jin's trip to the hospital. New Jin would have made it there fine...if only he wasn't dead. Now I have a headache.CincyNathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17674464576702200923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-86925859270507704492008-03-14T19:14:00.000-04:002008-03-14T19:14:00.000-04:00"How can anyone expect that a six season story is ..."How can anyone expect that a six season story is not going to evolve as it is written, filmed, edited and responded to by viewers? And why does it matter?<BR/>Every creative process is kind of organic. What’s offensive about that?"<BR/><BR/>This is a fair point except it doesn't quite hold true when the show very specifically sets up lots of mysterious elements from the beginning and then later developments either contradict those elements or at least require extensive mental gymnastics to reconcile them together. It's also frustrating when a show requires a lot of mental investment in things that the writers just wholesale abandon (like the significance of pushing a button). For some shows it might not matter, but for a show like Lost with an audience that has an amazing attention to detail (and things like Lostpedia to keep track of it all) it's annoying for them to be so inconsistent. <BR/><BR/>Take this criticism for example:<BR/>"thank god [the Others] were ready for this contingency with their brilliant "let's fool them for a few weeks in thinking we are primitive natives, and then drop the ruse totally because it is meaningless" plan - or was this another writers' "we're not sure what The Others mean quite yet" ploy?"<BR/><BR/>That's spot on as far as I'm concerned. It's fine if the writers didn't know exactly what the Others would be from day 1 (it's well documented that Michael Emerson was only supposed to be a bit part until they realized how awesomely creepy he was), but if they're going to pull these 180 degree shifts, they should at least be explained. It always struck me that the reason Tom stopped wearing the beard was because the actor himself complained that it was itchy. Because otherwise, there is no reasonable explanation for why he would have had a beard like that in the first place, only to take it off later.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-49516290462917726342008-03-14T17:45:00.000-04:002008-03-14T17:45:00.000-04:00Why was Hurley so happy that nobody else showed up...Why was Hurley so happy that nobody else showed up to see the baby? For a second I thought it was because <I>it's really his baby</I>. You can thank Mr. Treacher for inspiring me to go down that road.<BR/><BR/>Here's an idea that I don't really subscribe to, but stick with me here. Jin is still alive back on the island, and Sun was <I>literally</I> talking to him, sending him a message through some crazy one-way cameraworks embedded in the tombstone. No evidence for it, but hey, why not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-5626090456412080012008-03-14T17:29:00.000-04:002008-03-14T17:29:00.000-04:00The blogger and science fiction novelist John Scal...The blogger and science fiction novelist John Scalzi had a very good post recently on just this very topic: <A HREF="http://scalzi.com/whatever/?p=450" REL="nofollow">Things I Don't Know About My Own Universe</A>. (HINT: Pretty much everything that's not in his books. See, he <EM>makes it all up</EM>. He uses his <EM>creativity</EM>.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com