tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post7356994715385973099..comments2024-03-28T18:01:28.997-04:00Comments on What's Alan Watching?: Band of Brothers rewind, episode 9: "Why We Fight"Alan Sepinwallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-44045054217766069832012-04-13T21:36:49.131-04:002012-04-13T21:36:49.131-04:00This was a brilliant episode. At the beginning, wa...This was a brilliant episode. At the beginning, watching the German townspeople digging through the remains of their lives, one feels compassion for them. While watching the opening scene I distinctly remember thinking about the unfairness of the war. How the actions of the Hitler and the Nazis brought caused so much suffering for the german people as well as the allies. This feeling changed as the episode progressed. After having seen the second half of the episode involving the concentration camp, I found I was not able to look at the townspeople in the same way. However much they did or did not know, they still stood by and did nothing to stop it. In the last scene, incidentally the same one as at the beginning of the movie, I could think of nothing else and no longer felt the same compassion for their situation. A movie that so subtly yet clearly conveys a message like that is rare.Tanianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-29588938624077286842012-03-03T09:43:57.476-05:002012-03-03T09:43:57.476-05:00I desperately want to point out what most if not a...I desperately want to point out what most if not all people don't know about this episode. I'm sure you would have mentioned it if you knew about ww2 as much as I do. The photo of the officer in the widows house is in fact Erwin Rommel who commanded all German forces in Africa. He is one of the most knowledgable and experienced tank corps officer of all time. Even today he is praised for his skill by the Americans (I am Canadian). I remember watching a documentary on modern tank battalions and one actually has a big painting of him in their brief room. He was brilliant!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-12176474641233428882011-10-10T21:52:44.857-04:002011-10-10T21:52:44.857-04:00I know it's a long time after, but I'm sur...I know it's a long time after, but I'm sure somebody will read this. I'm pretty sure the German officer in question is Erwin Rommel, the commander of the Afrika Korps who died after Normandy.<br /><br />Also, my uncle was a Jewish American soldier who found a concentration camp in Germany when he was even younger than me. In a situation unlike Crossroads, his unit found and captured the SS group responsible and ordered him to take them back as prisoners, but shot them all instead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-49984500064784475152011-08-08T17:22:07.080-04:002011-08-08T17:22:07.080-04:00I am just now rewatching...I see Nixon as going to...I am just now rewatching...I see Nixon as going to the camp specifically to humiliate her, just as she did to him when she glared at him with disgust in her home. He was at his lowest point (I thought she became almost a stand-in for his wife who no doubt knows of his problem) and going through a personal hell, and then he's even being judged by a prideful German woman which sinks him even lower. <br /><br />As he makes his way to the camp their is a look of total purpose on his face, like he knows exactly who he is looking for. She pierced right through him, shamed him in that moment in her house, and after seeing the death camp he seems to realize that she had no right to judge him. I take her look as disgust at him and the Americans at making her do what she thinks she is above, she is after all a high ranking officers wife.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02803991143017071265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-41181041146533466192009-07-06T08:06:43.515-04:002009-07-06T08:06:43.515-04:00This episode started out slow and easy (which was ...This episode started out slow and easy (which was fine) but I was bawling by the end.<br /><br />Whether Easy was actually present at the liberation of any of the concentration camps are not, how could a series on the Victory in Europe have been complete without showing them? I think that's one of the great things film / art / do: tell a true story without having to remain true to each individual fact of the story.<br /><br />And they just did SUCH a great job with it.<br /><br />Really mindblowingly good. <br /><br />I'd say more but I may have to go have another cry.Carolynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09412645118253860411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-86170091609348804392009-07-03T12:40:06.370-04:002009-07-03T12:40:06.370-04:00john-
if you wouldn't mind, would you post so...john-<br /><br />if you wouldn't mind, would you post some comments about "Day of Days"? here is the link, i think we would all greatly appreciate it<br /><br />http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/06/band-of-brothers-rewind-episode-2-day.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-19437849462236204682009-07-02T16:41:25.164-04:002009-07-02T16:41:25.164-04:00pch101--
I'm only telling you what I know for...pch101--<br /><br />I'm only telling you what I know form the interviews I did, and who I talked to... first hand. As well as what Ambrose understood to be true.<br /><br />Bando has a lot of gripes with the series-- many of which he himself is wrong about... (some he's right about)...<br /><br />As to the differences in just the 3 vets you cite (two of whom confirm finding the camp, one who doesn't)... Welcome to our experience of making the series. ie, talking to men whose memories dim with each passing day... <br /><br />For example--I interviewed Malarkey, Compton, Lipton, Guarnere, Winters about Brecourt Manor, and not one remembered it the same... Episode 2 is my best guess from all I heard... But none of them remembered it exactly as shown. <br /><br />The show is NOT a documentary, but the best guess of what we think happened based on hundreds of hours of original interviewing... plus research, etc...<br /><br />And by the way, Malarkey wasn't even with Easy at the time of the Camp's discovery. <br /><br />An example of Easy's own men making mistakes-- all of them thought Blithe died of his wounds... And that's what Max wrote at the end of 3. Did he? turns out, no. He didn't. His family contacted the other vets to let them know he died much later, and not from his war wounds. There are plenty more examples like that...<br /><br />Anyway, too late to change the episode!John Orloffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-33518414618146509732009-07-02T11:07:53.458-04:002009-07-02T11:07:53.458-04:00the camp was part of a large COMPLEX of multiple c...<i>the camp was part of a large COMPLEX of multiple camps clustered near Landsberg. Easy did in fact liberate that PART.</i><br /><br />In his book, Don Malarkey specifically states that he does not know a single member of E Company who went to the camp, and he lists this scene as one of his complaints about the series. <br /><br />Mark Bando, a historian of the 101st, states that it was the 1st battalion that liberated a camp, and that the 2nd battalion (including E Company) wasn't part of it. He discusses this in this interview here: http://e-bennet.blogspot.com/2009/04/mark-bando-interview-part-two.html<br /><br />On the other hand, Babe Heffron does claim to have at least seen one, while Winters describes an E Company patrol including Perconte that did find a camp.<br /><br />On the whole, I don't know who's right. I don't personally think that it matters much, frankly -- it was certainly fitting to depict the Holocaust in some way, regardless of whether E Company was there or not.Pch101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-86720568084091736972009-07-02T01:11:07.604-04:002009-07-02T01:11:07.604-04:00Yes, thank you, Mr. Orloff, for dropping in! Your...Yes, thank you, Mr. Orloff, for dropping in! Your comments are much appreciated and very illuminating. Regarding the use of Beethoven’s Op. 131 -- I should have realized that something as subtle and yet as essential as this music was to the meaning of the bookend scenes would have been written into the script, not left up to the composer of original music for the series. <br /><br />I agree with Toeknee that you should be very proud of this series and especially of this episode. The fact that you had much less material from the vets to work with might have made it less narratively “accurate” in a narrow sense, but was also what allowed it to be, I think, the most aesthetically integrated and imaginatively constructed episode. And all in service of telling the larger story, of getting at the deeper truth.<br /><br />It’s a powerful powerful episode, and I can’t get it out of my mind. <br />supylsUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18370920284737797283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-88764881728816644062009-07-01T21:38:18.255-04:002009-07-01T21:38:18.255-04:00Kudos to you Mr. Orloff. This is not the first pla...Kudos to you Mr. Orloff. This is not the first place that I have read you offer commentary to your episodes. The entire BoB fanbase applauds this!<br /><br />For the record, I liked the episode, but it is my least favorite (Sorry, one has to be at the bottom). I guess I missed the point on the triviality of Nixon's problems compared to the trauma of the prison camp. I'll write it off as perspective.tinmann0715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-44786965081150463762009-07-01T20:34:39.904-04:002009-07-01T20:34:39.904-04:00Wow! Mr. Orloff - what a great treat it is to hav...Wow! Mr. Orloff - what a great treat it is to have you weigh in! Thank you very much for clarifying the many issues that have arisen here. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, Band of Brothers is my favorite of any TV show/movie/play I've ever seen, and "Why We Fight" is my favorite episode. You should be very proud.Toekneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-64378033237090000502009-07-01T19:18:32.168-04:002009-07-01T19:18:32.168-04:00Sister T--
A good point. The episode has several...Sister T--<br /><br />A good point. The episode has several themes, one of which is the DEGREES of evil. You're right, stealing is bad. So is breaking into the German widow's house, or when Easy rousts out German civilians to sleep in their houses... But then... there is EVIL....<br /><br />PCH101--<br /><br />You are incorrect. the camp was part of a large COMPLEX of multiple camps clustered near Landsberg. Easy did in fact liberate that PART.<br /><br />Tinmann--<br /><br />Sorry you don't like the ep... the date is a production error... in the script is dated as May 1.<br /><br />re: me mixing the troubles of the camp and Nixon-- THATS THE POINT OF THE EPISODE!!! Exactly-- his little problems don't compare... I'm guessing you knew you were going to see the camp before you did-- the idea was this is a man who is totally done with a senseless European war... and then he sees exactly why it is necessary.<br /><br />Yr right about Web's rant.<br /><br />We know the Whermacht officer is dead because of the black bar on the picture...<br /><br />You are correct larger camps were discovered earlier-- you are wrong in assuming that the regular GI on the front had any idea they had been found. They didn't-- remember most were found in Poland by the Soviets... And while Ike and other senior people were told of them (and at first did not believe), that doesn;t mean it was widely known.<br /><br />Sorry you didn't like the ep-- its very different from the rest of the series-- Hanks called it a "Tone Poem" ... sort of a meditation about much wider themes and ideas than any of the other episodes... I for one felt the subject matter required it... Sorry you didn't think so!<br /><br />Anyway...<br /><br />Hope this helped deepen your viewing of this one...<br /><br />joJohn Orloffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-90309541216441759722009-07-01T19:15:18.533-04:002009-07-01T19:15:18.533-04:00OK-- so I am the writer of episode 2 and 9...
I s...OK-- so I am the writer of episode 2 and 9...<br /><br />I should be writing, but if it's one thing writers know how to do, its procrastinate...<br /><br />So... wanted to respond to some points....<br /><br />Carl--<br /><br />The book-ends were there for a few reasons... One, to show the industry of the German people in rebuilding (as opposed to the French or Italians). 2. the weariness of the Easy Guys... 3. because I thought it would be dramatically interesting, and lends to a very strong finale of the episode-- the last line is a negative "But he didn't"... The whole episode is a negative and leading to the fact THEY HAD TO COME TO GERMANY.. But MOSTLY-- Beethoven. The Germans gave is Beethoven AND the holocaust. How can that be???<br /><br />The talking heads pre show didn't mention the camps BECAUSE NONE OF THE VETS WOULD TALK TO ME ABOUT IT. At all. Ever. If I asked them to tell me-- the same guys who could tell me about their best friend being killed in front of them-- they couldn't tell me about the camp. They literally said to me, "I can't talk about that". 55 years later, it was still too horrible to discuss...<br /><br />In the book, this stuff is one paragraph. I imagine for the same reason-- Ambrose told me it was his favorite episode, and I'm guessing its because I found things he didn't.. In fact, the episode is the least taken from the book...<br /><br />Winters WOULD talk to me, and a story he told me about himself was the core of the episode-- namely walking into the widow's house. I asked Winters if he would mind if I changed that event to Nixon, since I wanted this to be an episode about Nixon's disillusionment turning into understanding of the necessity of the war.<br /><br />Pete--<br /><br />Sorry you don't like the title. Alan's reading of it is exactly right-- these guys are asking themselves in various ways why they left their families for the last 2 years... And they find out. It's not referring to why FDR fought, or Churchill... They realize their sacrifices were necessary...<br /><br />Alyson--<br /><br />The webster issue is a complicated one... Your reading of his fluster is correct-- he knows what's being said... There was some scenes cut from the episode that better explained why he was reacting that way.... They cut about 10 minutes from the first cut...<br /><br />Lizbeth--<br /><br />In my opinion the Baker DID know what was a mile or so away... In fact, part of the episode is talking about the Germans as a whole. What did they think happened to the Jews? They went to the Caribbean? Hitler makes it quite clear in Mein Kampf what he intended-- and he did win an election....<br /><br />Also, the SS was a HUGE part of society... As was the SA earlier... Many-- MANY-- Germans knew what was going on...<br /><br />Tim--<br /><br />You're right... about the coffin as well...<br /><br />Jeanne--<br /><br />Not to brag, but the Beethoven piece-- even which piece-- was in the script before Michael Kamen came into the film. In my original script, that music was also played during the Concentration Camp scene, then dissolving into the final scene...<br /><br />The rest of your points ARE SPOT ON<br /><br />Toeknee--<br /><br />No relation to Schindler-- totally accidental.<br /><br />Your reading of the widow was exactly my intention... though I am open to a more vague reading as well...<br /><br />Dawning--<br /><br />See my explanation about the camps and the book earlier... I had do to my own research. <br /><br />Which brings up a wider issue-- ALL the writers did original research. We went way beyond the book-- I interviewed every single living person who was at Brecourt-- and had a very different version of events than Ambrose wrote...<br /><br />Nine was more difficult... because so little was spoken by the vets... But most of what you saw happened... Nixon's divorce, Speirs stealing, Nixon jumping in the plane that went down, fraternization, the widow (though she wasn't at the camp, that was my addition), the cleaning up, etc...<br /><br /><br />more to come...John Orloffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-54979398899271005932009-07-01T07:55:38.688-04:002009-07-01T07:55:38.688-04:00To tinmann0715:
A couple minor corrections. Nixo...To tinmann0715:<br />A couple minor corrections. Nixon’s jump was with Operation Varsity. And the date listed at the beginning was May 11. But what bothered me about that scene is that I thought it wasn’t known immediately how Hitler died. There were theories that he was killed by the Russians, or even that he had died of an illness well before the day he actually killed himself. So I don’t think Nixon would know Hitler shot himself, at that time.<br /><br />I don’t know if we know for sure the officer in the picture is dead. But I did read somewhere (probably the WBG boards) that the black ribbon was a sign of mourning, so I’d assume he is dead.<br /><br />Also, according to Closed Captioning, Perconte says to Luz "I'm not gonna share my eggs with you".<br /><br />Regarding the triviality of Nixon’s problems, I think that was part of the point of the episode. Nixon, Webster, Perconte all expressed varying levels of anger and frustration with being stuck in Europe fighting this war. But after they see the camp, they all realize that their own personal issues are indeed insignificant.<br /><br />Finally, thanks for the link to that website – good stuff there.Toekneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-64557365297845424702009-07-01T00:29:29.937-04:002009-07-01T00:29:29.937-04:00I intentioanlyl waited a couple of days since Alan...I intentioanlyl waited a couple of days since Alan's review before I watched this episode so I could digest every one else's opinions. This is my least favorite episode. However, I did come around some on my second least, Bastogne, thanks to everyone else's insight. Random thoughts:<br /><br />- One of a few episodes where the vets were interviewed before the opening song. Shifty's commentary about possibly being friends really hit home for me, moreso than anything else in the entire series.<br />- The opening scene says April 11th. The end of the episode has Nixon announcing on the same day that Hitler committed suicide. Hitler did the deed on April 30th.<br />- What is it that Perconte mumbles to Luz when Luz is fraternizing? No matter how high I turn it up I can not make sense of it.<br />- Nixon joined the 17th on a jump for Operation Valkyrie. I interpreted Nixon's gaze to Spiers is that of contempt. Nixon was in combat and Spiers is looting. One can interpret Nixon's opinion of looting from that.<br />- I really don't understand why the writers decided to mix Nixon's troubles with the slave labor camp. That is one of the most troubling aspects of this episode for me. The trviality of Nixon's troubles pales to the enormity of Easy's encounter with The Final Solution.<br />- Webster's rant was partly used to educate the viewers that the German war machine was mostly a myth. They relied quite heavily on horses for transport of personnel and supplies.<br />- How do we know that the German officer in the picture is dead? By the way, the officer is regular Wermacht and not SS. Most likely, he wasn't involved in any atrocities. The wife reminds me of a school teacher I was afraid of. I thik she did the same to Nixon.<br />- The fact that Perconte couldn't describe the camp to Winters tells us that the soldiers had no ideas of the existence of the camps prior to finding Landsberg, even though the bigger camps were liberated much earlier than this.<br />- Be careful not to blindly judge the civilians. What would we do if we were in their situation? Would we risk our lives and our families? Easier said than done.<br />- Here is a picture of the warehouse that stored the rubber bodies used in the episode. A great website: http://www.ww2incolor.com/modern/ww2+photos+Band+of+Brothers.html<br />- I did like how Nixon drove back to the camp when he heard the battalion was moving out. He had to see this place one last time and absorb the memory so he would never forget. When he comes across the man crying and the wife of the officer it tells the story of pride and shame what the Nazi cause really was.<br /><br />Unfortunately, my mind hasn't changed that much on the episode.tinmann0715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-37503094663870694062009-07-01T00:03:47.658-04:002009-07-01T00:03:47.658-04:00Everybody saw Johnny Martin's face. Everybody ...<i>Everybody saw Johnny Martin's face. Everybody heard the way he said Webster's name. Everybody has to know there's not a chance in hell that Webster's not going on this patrol.</i><br /><br />A captain's orders (Winters at that point) would override those of a sergeant. Immediately preceding the scene in which Webster tries to duck out, some of the other troopers can be overheard saying something to the effect that "Webster gets out of everything." Once Winters gives the break to Liebgott, the expression on Webster's face is not a happy one. The episode would make it appear that Webster was trying to curry favor with Jones, but not trying to do the hazardous duty himself.<br /><br /><i>He cares about these guys, and he obviously wants back in.</i><br /><br />One of the ongoing themes of The Last Patrol episodes is the ambiguity of Webster's relationships with others in the company. He's pleased to see everyone, but the feeling is not mutual. I suspect that it was depicted in this way in order to balance Webster's views as expressed in his book with those of the other members of the company, at least some of whom seem to resent the attention that Webster received from Ambrose. <br /><br />That theme of ambiguity ties in well to this episode, in which we get to see the ambivalence that American troops had for the Germans. These same neat, orderly, responsible people who "clean up good" and make for "good fraternizing territory" are the same people who built death camps and necessitated the war in the first place. I think that this episode does a fine job of showing that the situation wasn't so black and white, even among those who had every right to be angry and bitter about their circumstances.<br /><br /><i>I've wondered about that -- why Ambrose didn't write more about it (unless E-company really didn't have much to do with it), and then why/how it got expanded so much in the series.</i><br /><br />In real life, other companies in the 506 liberated the camp. BoB is in part meant to serve as a composite for the experiences of the Allied forces as a whole, so some facts were changed for the sake of the story flow. At least Winters saw the camp, so I suppose that was close enough.Pch101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-42795616370275799822009-06-30T23:45:30.001-04:002009-06-30T23:45:30.001-04:00The looting in this and other episodes disturbs me...The looting in this and other episodes disturbs me. (Later on Winters justifies it because of what the men have gone through and what the Germans did in the concentration camps. I don't agree with his justification, but I fully understand it. I just think of all the personal possessions robbed from European Jews and Winters' point is very understandable.) So I feel for the German woman when Nixon invades her home and she doesn't know what kind of destruction he will cause to her personal possessions. Because I'm a tad sympathetic to her, I see her look at the end as trying to hold on to a sliver of her pride amid that horror. It's ludicrous to hold on to pride (especially what would be false pride if she and her husband were indeed Nazis) in that moment, but what else does she have? And I think that interpretation finds a tiny(*) echo in the musicians at the end. The music is sad, beautiful, German and ludicrous among the rubble.<br /><br />(*)Though chiefly, the musical bookends are more like a dirge and all the comments above about the case representing a coffin and there being a rock beside it were very enlightening.Sister Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05951804464704449331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-36195780092209255542009-06-30T22:19:05.856-04:002009-06-30T22:19:05.856-04:00Dawning, what I remember from the Ambrose book was...Dawning, what I remember from the Ambrose book was his description of the different people Easy came across, something about how they disliked the French, and thought they came across as somewhat ungrateful to the Americans; that they loved the Dutch, because they absolutely loved them; but that of all the people, the Germans were the most like them. <br />I found that to be an interesting idea...<br />Although I would have to check the book again to be certain of that.Stinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-26260466545768425602009-06-30T20:50:39.490-04:002009-06-30T20:50:39.490-04:00The discussions on these thread just keep getting ...<i>The discussions on these thread just keep getting better, and yet I've noticed that we've lost a lot of the people who started on Currahee and especially the ones who got amped up when Alan said he was considering do the reviews. Where'd they all go?</i><br /><br />I think this is no reflection on the reviews and discussion (both of which have been great). I think it's because a lot of the early comments were about the series in general - who's who,characters you like best, those types of things. All of that has been discussed. <br /><br />I, for one, am sad that there is only one review left.Annanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-81355120383499018692009-06-30T18:50:53.531-04:002009-06-30T18:50:53.531-04:00Well, I did post in support of Alan's doing th...Well, I did post in support of Alan's doing these reviews, though I didn't promise comments (I'm more of a reader than a commenter in general). But I don't want to appear unappreciative, because these posts and discussions have been great, even if I haven't actually had a chance to do a rewatch myself yet (hopefully later in July).<br /><br />But I did catch the last 5 minutes of this episode today on the History Channel, and I agree with all that's been said about the use of the music and the looks on the Germans' faces, Liebgott, Nixon, the overall greatness of this episode, etc. <br /><br />Two substantive comments. First, I read the Ambrose book the other year, and one thing that really surprised me, considering how powerful this episode was, was that the finding of the camp gets about a half a page in the book -- he does barely more than mention it (if I'm remembering correctly). I've wondered about that -- why Ambrose didn't write more about it (unless E-company really didn't have much to do with it), and then why/how it got expanded so much in the series. I mean, it obviously was a good decision to make it more prominent here, and they did a fantastic job of it, but it really makes me curious of how much of this was made up or if it was based on further recollections of the men involved that didn't get into the Ambrose book for one reason or another.<br /><br />Second, I also read Winters's memoirs last year, and I unfortunately don't really remember what he said about the finding of the camp. But, relevant to <b>Tim's</b> comments above, one thing I do remember (and I think this was from his book, and not from Ambrose's, but I could be mistaken -- it's been a while) is the point made about the difference between the French and the Dutch and Germans in the way the general populace responded to the destruction around them -- if I'm remembering correctly, the picture here of the Germans out right away cleaning up and salvaging what they could was typical of them and the Dutch, while the French didn't really do much to clean up the mess after the attacks (and how that affected the soldiers' perceptions of the people). Can anyone else who read those books corroborate or correct that? <br /><br />Thanks again for doing these, Alan.Dawningnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-81651223152468722062009-06-30T18:24:05.757-04:002009-06-30T18:24:05.757-04:00Man, I wish you hadn't italicized a comment of...Man, I wish you hadn't italicized a comment of mine that had two errors in it. Or maybe I just wish I had read it before posting...<br /><br />Also, please don't postpone "Points." If you do, I'll be this blog's equivalent of the kid who reminds the teacher to assign homeworkHatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01184680741873873714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-26251749960147701782009-06-30T17:28:10.400-04:002009-06-30T17:28:10.400-04:00The discussions on these thread just keep getting ...<i>The discussions on these thread just keep getting better, and yet I've noticed that we've lost a lot of the people who started on Currahee and especially the ones who got amped up when Alan said he was considering do the reviews. Where'd they all go?</i><br /><br />Yeah, I've noticed this, too. If I were a petty sort, I might be inclined to postpone my "Points" review until some of those people come back.Alan Sepinwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388147774725646742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-84091121829927089492009-06-30T17:18:26.401-04:002009-06-30T17:18:26.401-04:00The latter scene is ambiguously portrayed, but the...<i>The latter scene is ambiguously portrayed, but the implication is that Webster must have pulled stunts such as this before in order to avoid the dangers that have gotten others killed or maimed.</i><br /><br />See, I've seen people argue this before, and I don't buy it (and it was Speirs, not Winters, choosing the patrol). Everybody saw Johnny Martin's face. Everybody heard the way he said Webster's name. Everybody <i>has</i> to know there's not a chance in hell that Webster's not going on this patrol. He's going, no question, even if Martin has to drag him. That Webster was trying to get Leibgott out of it (to be nice, to regain social currency, whatever) is really the only plausible reading, IMO.<br /><br />And don't forget that letting Malarkey stay behind was his suggestion, and that he went on the Bull rescue mission back in "Replacements." He might not have been Mr. Gung-Ho Volunteer, but to say he was deliberately malingering is unfair. He cares about these guys, and he obviously wants back in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-10708128478165691242009-06-30T15:34:50.981-04:002009-06-30T15:34:50.981-04:00I read the widow’s reaction as shame. At first she...I read the widow’s reaction as shame. At first she seems upset at having to perform such a task (I get the feeling she’s got a few people she pays to clean up her house for her), but when she has to look Nixon in the eye she’s overcome with shame and embarrassment that the husband she was so proud of for serving as on officer in the German army is in someway responsible for, or associated with, this atrocity. <br /><br />When they first met each other in her house, she felt superior because she was married to a man that in her mind was better than this drunken American officer stumbling around her house looking for booze. But now that pride has been shaken and she knows she can not defend what her husband is associated with.Dannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17517257.post-13821672759388645902009-06-30T15:12:08.025-04:002009-06-30T15:12:08.025-04:00In "The Last Patrol," Webster claims to ...<i>In "The Last Patrol," Webster claims to only speak a little German, but then Liebgott complains to the other guys that Webster's command of the language is almost as good as his own. This could be interpreted as Liebgott still holding a grudge against the guy, or as one of many examples of Webster being written inconsistently in these last few episodes, being used for whatever purpose the writers had at that moment.</i><br /><br />There are various instances throughout the series when Webster's character is shown to have some level of German proficiency, such as during the attack on The Island when he translates for Martin. <br /><br />Going back to the Patrol episode, it appears to me that the writers wish to make it look as if Webster is slyly trying to avoid going on the patrol. During the briefing, he indicates that he only speaks "a little," even though we know from his earlier actions that he knows enough German to serve as translator. At another point, as he attempts to have Winters allow him to stay behind, Winters cuts him off and relieves Liebgott from duty, instead. The latter scene is ambiguously portrayed, but the implication is that Webster must have pulled stunts such as this before in order to avoid the dangers that have gotten others killed or maimed. (In real life, Webster manned a machine gun on the bank to protect the patrol, so this entire plot point is fictionalized, and is arguably unfair to the real life person.)<br /><br />In this episode, he understands the German merchant, but doesn't wish to dignify him by communicating with him in German. When the German (at gun point) tells him in German that he is not a Nazi, Webster replies caustically in English, clearly comprehending what was said to him. <br /><br />For these guys, translation would be seen as a duty or as something to be accorded to individuals whom they happen to like. Those whom they disliked, such as the angry merchant, are not going to get the respect of being spoken to in their own language. In that scene, Webster doesn't particularly care whether or not he's being understood; he's ranting for his own sake, not for the benefit of the merchant.Pch101noreply@blogger.com