Spoilers for tonight's "Lost" coming up just as soon as I get my reel-to-reel going..."James, are you sure you know what you're doing?" -Juliet"LaFleur" wasn't a mind-blowing episode of "Lost," nor one where we can spend a lot of time picking over it for clues about the larger mythology. (UPDATE: Apparently, I was wrong on this. 200 comments and counting!) But boy, was it fun.
"Not yet. But I'll figure something out." -Sawyer
Having shown us Dan in the '70s in the season premiere, and having shown Jin driving the magic bus and wearing a Dharma jumpsuit at the end of "316," the writers didn't have much of a surprise left in showing that the rest of Sawyer's motley band also wound up hanging with Horace Goodpseed and company. But that's fine, because the storytelling model of the last few seasons means that every now and then we need a filling-in-the-blanks episode, and this was one of the more entertaining ones they've ever done. Sometimes it's nice to have an hour of "Lost" that's relatively straightforward (even with the frequent Three Years Later/Earlier jumps), that doesn't require an advanced degree from the Dr. Sam Beckett Fan Correspondence School for Quantum Theory to make sense of, that's simply about the pleasure of watching a great character like James Ford doing his thing -- and, for that matter, the pleasure of watching Juliet Burke do her thing right beside him.
I've always enjoyed Sawyer, but separating him from Jack (both during season three and this season) has been good for the character. It forces him into a leadership role, and he's even more appealing as a reluctant hero than he is as a charming irritant. The very nature of "Lost" allows the show to explore lots of genres -- sci-fi, horror, action-adventure, espionage, soap opera, personal drama -- and their archetypes, and Sawyer the con man fits well into so many of them. Here, we got to see him be all Steve McQueen (with Juliet, I suppose, as Yul Brynner) in his confrontation with the two Hostiles (the looks they trade are pure McQueen/Brynner in "Magnificent Seven"), but also to see him as the crusty but benign boss in an off-beat period workplace drama ("The Dharma Years?").
The look of pure joy on his face as Juliet told him about the successful delivery (see above) was matched only by the look of relief on Juliet's face. Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell played so well off each other throughout the episode, and sold all of the emotions as the two of them slowly assimilated into life with the Dharma Initiative. Though I like Sawyer with Kate (especially if the alternative is Jack with Kate), Sawyer and Juliet fit so well together that it was almost disappointing to see him set eyes on Freckles again at the end.
(Now that Sawyer's been with Juliet, who used to be with Jack, who's been with Kate, who used to be with Sawyer, we've finally got a legitimate love quadrangle. Quick: can anyone name an interesting love quadrangle in TV, movies or literature? Comic books? Cave paintings?)
"LaFleur" gave us a Sawyer who was finally at peace after three years of waiting for Locke to show up, and it also gave us a Sawyer who had gradually learned to let go of lying. Sure, he's still using the name Jim LaFleur, and he still has Jin searching various quadrants of the island for Locke and the others, but he's content, and he's found love, and he manages to save the day -- and win a job as Dharma's new security chief -- by telling Richard Alpert the complete and unvarnished truth. (Isn't it funny how good things can happen when people on this island share information with one another?)
I just had a great time throughout even as I wondered, like Juliet, what the point is of the Oceanic Six coming back. Locke re-aligned the wheel, the jumps stopped, the nosebleeds stopped, everyone other than Charlotte is more or less okay, if stuck 30 years in the past, so what am I missing here? What plans does the island have for the Six (and for Desmond, and, hopefully, Walt) that have nothing to do with the needle-skip problem? And how mad are Jack, Kate and Hurley going to be once they realize that they apparently didn't need to come back to save everybody?
I look forward to finding all that out, especially if upcoming episodes are as strong as this one.
Some other thoughts:
• The fine folks at the "Lost" Easter Eggs site wasted little time in getting up a screen capture of the four-toed statue in all its original glory, albeit from behind. It's probably a higher-quality than the one I made, but feel free to start analyzing either version for clues about just what this thing is. It looks Egyptian to me, particularly the things in its hands, which look sort of like ankhs. But Cuselof definitely lived up to their promise to show us the statue again, even if they didn't explain it or show us its face. • Though this was primarily a Sawyer episode, with a generous serving of Juliet, I don't want to overlook Jeremy Davies continuing to knock it out of the park as poor, grieving Dan Faraday. The look on his face as he recognized little girl Charlotte in the '70s was heartbreaking.
• Speaking of Charlotte, interesting that her body didn't go with them (or stay with them) on the last jump. I guess whatever force was moving the rest of Sawyer's group (or holding them in place) has no power over (or interest in) the dead, unless maybe they're being touched by the living.
• After four and a half seasons of "Lost," Daniel Dae Kim finally gets to stop speaking in pidgin English. In our brief glimpses of him in the Three Years Later scenes, it's clear his time among the Dharma-ites has done wonders for his language proficiency.
• I'm a little confused about the marital status of Horace Goodspeed. When he was first introduced in season three's "The Man Behind the Curtain," he was traveling with Olivia, the character played by Samantha Mathis, and it was at least implied (enough to convince the folks at Lostpedia) that she was Mrs. Goodspeed. And Olivia was seen again as a Dharma schoolteacher when Ben arrived on the island as a little boy. Yet here, Horace is free to marry Amy as her rebound guy, so either we all misread the Olivia situation, plans changed for that character, or something more complicated is going on there.
• Speaking of "The Man Behind the Curtain," did it establish whether there were fertility problems in the Dharma days, or only after the Hostiles overthrew them? Clearly, it wasn't an issue back in the '70s, so whatever caused all the miscarriages has yet to take place.
• A good week for Hey, It's That Guy/Girl!s on "Lost." In addition to the return of Doug Hutchison as Horace, we got Reiko Aylesworth from "24" as Amy, Patrick Fischler (recently seen as comedian Jimmy Barrett on "Mad Men") as Phil and Kevin Rankin (Herc on "Friday Night Lights," and the only good thing about the "Bionic Woman" remake) as Jerry.
• Still waiting for Rose, Bernard and Vincent to send up a signal flare. Are we to assume that they're also somewhere in the Dharma village, and we just didn't get to see them this week? And, as usual, what about Cindy and the kids? Or are they supposed to be immune to the jumps somehow like the native Others?
• Note that Sawyer refers to Richard as "your buddy out there with the eyeliner." I guess they had to reference it sooner or later within the show, even if Lindelof and Cuse insist that Nestor Carbonell isn't wearing any eye makeup.
Finally, in case you missed it this morning, please take a quick skim through the guide to posting comments before you start to weigh in. Okay?
What did everybody else think?
238 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 238 of 238Found this little tidbit on the Salon Lost forum. (not in the least spoilery):
http://mrtheodi.iimmgg.com/image/a14b5b86c2c045d4985f472ac91b01cd
I'll have to watch the episode again to be sure, but didn't they sneak the statue reveal into the "Previously on Lost" bit at the front? Seems to me they extended a scene we had seen in 316, I believe. I don't know whether the statue is of Anubis, Horus or some other figure, but I guess we'll find out soon enough. I do know, and I was reminded of this while rewatching Life and Death of JB, that Abbadon tells Locke that "he helps get people where they need to be". My immediate thought when I heard this was that Abbadon = Charon (boatman over the River Styx). I'm thinking there may be some subtext going on regarding competing mythologies - maybe the good old "mono- vs poly- theism" debate. I thought this was a great episode, and loved seeing Sawyer happy.
God, I love Juliet. While watching the episode tonight, I turned to my husband and said, "I'm trying to figure out which I want more: to be Juliet or to have sex with her."
@Jill: Have you seen "Gia" with Elizabeth Mitchell and Angelina Jolie?
Alan wrote:
"We'll find out next season. Cuselof have said Emilie de Ravin won't be on the show this year but will be back next."
Alan,
I'm curious why you consider the previews that air each week immediately after the episode as spoilers, but not significant casting details like this -- something which came not from the show's canon but from spoilerish interviews with the creators? It seems to me the second is a far worse sin than the first. Not necessarily complaining, mind you (I knew that detail already), but considering your recent reiteration of the rules here, I feel a bit more confused now than before about what's a spoiler and what's not.
I'm curious why you consider the previews that air each week immediately after the episode as spoilers, but not significant casting details like this -- something which came not from the show's canon but from spoilerish interviews with the creators?
Because it's about something that's not going to be happening.
Details of casting are always complicating to factor into the spoiler equation, but my thought is, if the creators of the show -- who themselves despise spoilers as much as I do -- are fine with the audience knowing this fact, I'm fine with putting it out there.
christy, I don't think the Swan was controlling Jughead because that was not an atomic explosion. Also that would mean that Chekov's bomb was introduced in the 2nd act and went off in the first (which is kind of cool but not what I think they are doing). I don't think we're done with Jughead. I was wondering if that, actually was what was screwing up the fertility - slowly, from seeping out over decades. But I am neither a babyologist or a radiologist and it seems like you would notice other effects of radiation as well.
What I was thinking about was how Horace was going to let them leave and did not give them the big speech about how no one must ever know about the island blah blah blah. And how did the Army find it to drop Jughead off?
Maybe, the scientists get close enough to the source/controller of Death and Time to muck about with it which set off a chain reaction resulting in a very problematic closed loop of Death and Time being all messed up? This is what needs fixing?
Alan, I think the thing is that the new info in the episode was presented in such an enjoyable package that one doesn't notice how much there is. (Also we all geek about about the tiniest thing.) Thanks for giving us a place to chat.
205 comments later, and it came close, but no one mentioned Ted, Robin, Barney, and Barney's "wife"? You've got to know that at some point Barney must have consumated his relationship with a woman he paid to act as his spouse for enough time to have raised a child with her... if only for the credibility of the role. Barney is, after all, nothing if not a professional.
"Jin's english tutor said...
Wonderful, season 1-ish episode, but one nit-pick: why the use of placeholder cards now (three years earlier, 36 hours ago...)? Lost has been jumping around time for 4 years; I think we're all paying close enough attention by now to figure it out."
I noticed this as well, but I think this episode in particular focused on a specific jump between those two times, three years apart, in order to establish the relationship between the Oceanic 6'ers and the Leftovers in the 'Lost' timeline.
I feel like it is no coincidence that the O6 appear on the island (or re-appear) when they do... because they are re-aligning their timelines with their on-island counterparts. The island has done stranger things than this to rectify a situation or lead to a particular outcome (like prohibiting the trigger of a gun from being pulled... in New York City, no less).
Lastly, the episode made reference to the "other island" again, which is my guess for where Sayid and Sun have been dropped. Linus and the other passengers are clearly with a reincarnated Locke in 2007, but has it been established that either Sayid or Sun definitely did not travel back with Jack, Kate and Hurley? I would be surprised if that were the case.
loved the ep, have grown so weary of Lost over the last couple of seasons (I watch because my husband watches), it was nice to sit back and enjoy character and plot development. Agree that Kate & Juliet have lots of chemistry w/ Sawyer, not so much with Jack. And that Kate seems to be much more interesting when she's not around either guy.
I feel so ridiculous about not having anything to say about the statue, or the time travelling or any of the really weighty stuff and yet I *do* feel compelled to put my 2 cents' worth in on the whole Nestor Carbonell-eyeliner discussion. My 17yo son's eyes are just like that, they always look like he's wearing eyeliner and mascara. All his life, every woman we've known has swooned over my son's eyes (I suspect some men have swooned too). And when he's deeply tanned, it looks like he's got thick kohl lining his eyes. I honestly believe this is one thing Demon & Curse aren't lying about. I think Sawyer's eyeliner comment was meant as a tip of the hat to all the people who have been blogging and commenting about it.
It was very interesting, reading Alan's post & all the comments... I guess this will be my new post-show destination, much as it was during Mad Men.
Alan, I can't believe you missed this, or that it took this long to pop into my head, but SPORTS NIGHT!
Dana-->Casey-->Sally-->Gordon-->Dana, etc.
Quadrangle? Check. Interesting? You're wearing my shirt. And the ring cleaners.
That statue is of Richard Alpert. An immortal leader with eyes that look like they have eyeliner on them. He is an ageless native Egyptian who discovered immortality and as such has received a statue in his honour. Perhaps the island used to be near the coast of Egypt in ancient times?
If the extent of the explanation for the 4-toed statue is the thing we saw this episode, that's a pretty big cop-out.
I disagree that "Lost" is or should be a character driven show. It is plot / mythology driven. This should be obvious by now.
They've introduced so many characters that went nowhere (ALL the tailies, including Bernard, Charolette, minor Others, the legendary Nikki and Paulo, on and on...) that I can't take Miles or Daniel or ANY of the characters now seriously. They've also proved that the main characters are not nearly as interesting or established as they wished - that is why everyone got tired of their flashbacks that was supposed to be stimulating because of our interest in these people. But we soon didn't care about Jin's father-in-law issues, or Kate's fugitive status, or Hurley's meager beginnings. And certainly didn't care about Jack's tattoos - the fact that that was a full episode demonstrates that these characters are so shallow and boring that they cannot hold a story. Even Locke's past can only be visited once before it gets old. It is telling that the favorite Lost character is now Desmond, who is a minor player at best. The thought that this show should be driven by the current lot and their character interactions would be dreary and makes me sleepy. People care about the Island and the Mysteries, the characters just get us from here to there, nothing more.
The exception might be Sawyer. He's probably the only guy I still have any interest in as a character, and the reason why I also enjoyed this episode. Though quick, it was interesting to see how he would progress as a human being after three years. Seeing that he wanted a pretty normal life and how he CAN fit into a community tells a lot about his character, something different than watching Jin fight with Dad-in-law for the 4th time.
As proof of how lame these characters are and incapable of supporting a character driven show (unlike, say, BSG, where the characters are defined so well that we care for them and is truly character driven), now that they are all together I'm sure no one will care about the Jack-Kate-Sawyer crap any more than they did before, nor will we care about Hurley's insecurity, or even why Miles talks to ghosts. We just want plot and questions posed and answered. The more they dwell on the character stuff, the more impatience will be expressed by the audience. I'll watch the Sun and Jin reunion and be happy, but if they dwell on it for more than that moment, I won't care about that too.
"Wrenn said...
Is anyone else going to go back and make sure that there's no corpse wearing a "LaFleur" Dharma shirt in Ben's mass grave?"
I swear I have seen a "Lafleur"
Dharma jumpsuit somewhere in this series. I just don't have the time to go back and find it.
Anonymous said: "Similarly, in the Jack/Juliet/Kate/Sawyer square, there are no lines between Jack and Sawyer, Kate and Juliet. Now, you can make a square from the four relationships by putting Jack-Kate first line, Juliet-Sawyer second line... but if you just draw lines between the current pairings in M-F order (Jack/Kate off the island in 04-07, Sawyer/Juliet on the island in 74-77), you'll end up with a hourglass figure."
? Is that you, Farraday?
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I very well may be, but where did Miles go? Was he in any of the three years later sequences? If he was, I definitely missed it. He and Dan both seemed to have left. Probably something that will get its own episode later. Not that I'm complaining, I love both of those characters, and would surely welcome more from them than an episode focusing on say, Jack or Kate. (Gagging noise) Although, Jack and Kate can both be compelling as long as they're not paired.
Miles goes with Sawyer to pick up the drunk Horace at the fence line.
First thought that came to my mind is the issues with the births came around when the statue was destroyed/fell...just a thought
At the begging of the episode, when the Dharma dude is dancing with that beauty, one of them mumbles about a certain "Rose-lady" that would bring up some food (or so i heard) Could that be our Rose???
(excuse my english... it is rusted)
well i don't think the statue is of Anubis, i think it is of Taweret, goddess of birth. just check out this link
http://www.abaxion.com/sq493.htm
and my new theory is that when the statue of Taweret was destroyed, people were no longer able to conceive and have a child on the island.
I agree that Rose/Bernard are possibly the Adam/Eve found in the cave in Season 1.
RE: Claire-- is she traveling through time with Christian? I would assume Christian is, he appeared before Locke by the wheel.
And, did Miles ever "detect" (whatever you would say) Charlotte's body in Season 4?
I'm curious to see if Lindelof and Cruse are going to take anyone off the island. Obviously Faraday doesn't know what the Island is but he has memory of it (which explains the tears). How is he off the island and how does he not remember?
Great episode though. This show's cast needs to be noticed by the Emmy's.
It was an interesting juxtaposition to see Sawyer's crew assimilate and even seem to be happy with the lives they built in their three years on island versus the anger, despair and even insanity that the O6 spent their 3 years off island wallowing in.
It should also be interesting to see how Jack, Kate and Hurley fit into a group in which Sawyer seems to essentially be running the show with Horace off the wagon.
Jay311 - good theory about the statuesque Taweret. Four toe photos amigos.
http://www.bronzart-hk.com/images/Products/AC/RIMG0843.JPG
I vote for the Spike, Dursilla, Angel, Buffy quadrangle. It has the added interest of a hint in one episode of Angel and Spike.
Nothing new to add to the wonderful comments of everyone else.
Bill Adama <-> Galactica
Saul Tigh <-> Bill Adama
Laura Roslin <-> Bill Adama
HA!
If Sawyer exists in the "2004-2005", then he had nothing to fear in meeting Richard Alpert, right?
Since the 816ers are all living in 2004-2005, they can't potentially die in 197x, if I have that right...
That kinda sucks any drama out of shootouts and the like, eh?
No, it doesn't work out like that. If you have the same person existing twice in the same time period, the younger version is, in effect, immortal - in that he definitely lived through any potentially lethal experiences to grow older and become the older person that also exists in the time frame. But the older person is definitely at risk - unless they run into an even older version.
Look, think about it this way. What you're saying is that people cannot die if they travel back into the past, at least into a time period where another version of themselves exists. So, hypothetically, a 100-year-old man time-travels back to 1910. According to your logic, he is now effectively immortal for the next 100 years. He's live through 100 years two times, in effect being 200 years old, yet he won't die of old age. That's the logic that you're applying. And it doesn't work like that. Logic dictates that it cannot work like that.
If it's just a statue of Anubis, why be coy about showing its face?
Because, if I remember correctly, the four-toed statue is basically on the edge of the island, and facing out to sea. In other words, the only way for them to see the face of the statue would be for them to be in the ocean, not on the land.
And it could also be that this is Lost - withholding information is just what they do.
An interesting or, at least, funny love quadrangle was portraited in the spanish movie "The Other Side of Bed" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301524/) with Javier, Sonia, Pedro and Paula and they were friends.
Smiley, dimply Sawyer was worth the price of admission.
Great line: "Jin's a hulluva nice guy, but he's not much of a conversationalist."
I've been convinced ever since Juliet and Sawyer were together on the beach when the freighter blew up that coupledom was in their future, and I've been dreading it, as I've never been able to stand Juliet and always felt the Kate/Sawyer chemistry was super hot (never forget love in the bear cage). However, after last night, I'm a believer, much to my surprise, and am a bit disappointed anticipating the love confusion to come.
Why does Richard always look the same EXCEPT when he first sees child-Ben. At that point he's all jungled out with long wavy hair. Any ideas?
Very confused as to why child-Ben is not around. Theories?
is 225 posts a Seppy award for most ever?
I've read through the comments and if I missed this, I apologize, but: Is it just me or does it seem that Locke and Ben (and the "new" people) from the flight to Guam are back on the island in a different time period than Jack, Kate and Hurley? Since it showed Cesar(?) was pillaging around in the "old" Dharma buildings and Locke was talking about Dharma like it was a long time ago, but Jack, Kate and Hurley are in the 70's????
Why would they be in different time periods?
OK, Richard Alpert's initials are Ra - the big Egyptian god and his eyeliner - eye of Ra?
Not sure what any of it means, but we have Horace, a statue of Anubis, an Ahnk and now Ra?
Sorry I missed the whole Miles picking up drunken Horace thing. I still think that a fill in the blanks episode, or part of an episode featuring Miles and/or Farraday and how they spent their three years with the Dharma Initiative would be great stuff.
I am not too concerned about the statue, I really don't care that much. I think back when the four-toed statue was first revealed, it served the purpose of adding another dimension of weirdness to the Island. I for one, don't need everything to be explained at the expense of good story-telling.
For example, if Richard turns out to be an Ancient Egyptian who has been time traveling all this time, will that really jive with the rest of the characters on the show? Are you gonna tell me Walt is King Tut, and Locke is Ramses? I guess Kate would be Nefertitti?
I guess I just don't see the point in forcing in every little detail. I think the writers are doing a fine job tying up loose ends while moving the story along so far this season. The statue was only viewed one other time (I think) and it really doesn't need more clarification in my opinion, unless they can make it fit the current story lines.
Now if they ignore Walt, who was a MAJOR character in season 1, that will upset me. I want to know why he scared the Others so much. Was it strictly the birds? Also the whole bit he said to Locke in Life and Death of JB about being surrounded by people who were trying to hurt him could make him relevant sooner rather than later.
While waiting for the midnight showing of "Watchmen" to begin, I noticed a guy in front of me watching this ep of "Lost" on his iPhone, so I got to enjoy at least the visuals again :-) Of course, every time I saw Ozymandias' Egyptian decor, I kept looking for possible matches to the "Lost" statue!
Is Richard Albert an original islander/castaway from Egyptian times. Some sort of Pharaoh??? They always seem to be wearing eyeliner in the history books....
I think you can see "316", "Jeremy Bentham", and "LaFleur" as a sort of trilogy in a way that makes it necessary for "316" to be told from Jack's point of view. It's a trilogy about leadership.
First we get Jack, the reluctant de facto leader who eventually found that he couldn't lead except by shouting and waving a gun around. He couldn't get anyone to go back to the island with him (except Kate, I guess) because his motives were too selfish. (As I read it, they all had their own reasons for getting on that flight that we'll be seeing later in the season.)
Then we get Locke, the wannabe leader and eventual appointed Leader, who never actually knew what to do. He always had to ask Ben, or Jacob, or Richard, what to do next, and back on the mainland, like Jack, he couldn't get anyone to follow him.
Finally Sawyer, the reluctant leader who doesn't step forward until he absolutely has to. But when he does, he grows into the role naturally. The least likely of the three becomes the best leader, perhaps because he never forced himself to lead before he was ready the way Jack and Locke did.
Dr. Sam Beckett Fan Correspondence School for Quantum Theory lol LOVE this comment! That's what it reminds me of.
Great rules. Wish some other sites would adopt them
Anonymous, that comment on the leadership trilogy was spot on. I had the same thoughts about each character, but I couldn't quite articulate as well. I agree that Sawyer is the best leader, and I also think the reasons you provide are accurate. We may be setting up for a leadership triangle instead of a love triangle.
according the official LOST Podcast Darlton referred to Olivia as Horace Goodspeed's friend- maybe that's now that Samantha Mathis isn't coming back to the show.
One argument for the statue being Taweret is the following from wikipedia:
"Consequently, Taweret became seen, very early in Egyptian history, as a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth. Pregnant women wore amulets with her name or likeness to protect their pregnancies."
Perhaps whatever destroyed the statue marked the beginning of difficulty with childbirth on the island.
I can't believe there's no comments past March 5th, considering the horrible, painful 14 day Lost gap we're all undergoing... Come on, next Wednesday... hurry up!
"And betty, Pretty sure the van is on the big island. Where did you see it on the little one?"
She must have been confused between the Barracks area of the main island and the Hydra/runway area of the small island.
"I think you're wrong because Locke saw the spotlight in the sky coming from the Swan. Clearly the other John Locke was on the island too."
Not to mention Sawyer got to see Kate helping Claire give birth to Aaron... when his slightly-younger self was elsewhere on the island at the same time.
"Actually, yes. It happened on December 21, 1992 at 4:00 pm local time."
That needs to be said again and again. So many comments mention it taking place in the 70s or 80s, there's clearly a lot of confusion.
"the mythology which... feels like they're just MAKING UP ANY DARN THING THEY LIKE."
That's the way myths are born, though. Gotta be made up, someway somehow. Ah, fiction.
"At the begging of the episode, when the Dharma dude is dancing with that beauty, one of them mumbles about a certain "Rose-lady" that would bring up some food (or so i heard) Could that be our Rose???"
No, the dude is telling the other dude that the lady he's dancing with brought food (looked like a plate of brownies, it was on the ledge below the security monitors). That's her name, not our Rose, he's talking about.
"It was an interesting juxtaposition to see Sawyer's crew assimilate and even seem to be happy with the lives they built in their three years on island versus the anger, despair and even insanity that the O6 spent their 3 years off island wallowing in."
While Sayid went through a lot with the death of Nadia and his assassination missions for Ben early on in the 3 years, I wouldn't call his habitat for humanity charity "anger, despair, and insanity."
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