Monday, January 21, 2008

The Wire week 4 thread for the On Demand'ers

Once again, this is the place to talk about "The Wire" episode 4, "Transitions," until my review goes live after Sunday night's HBO airing. Do not talk about this episode in the episode 3 review thread, and do not discuss anything you may know about future episodes. Any spoilers will be deleted by me.

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

R.I.P. Joe

JP said...

The bloodbath continues. Sorry to see Joe go, and even sorrier that Tom Shales' preview made me see it coming.

Two more season-two characters make appearances, we see a clean-shaven Greek and one of the dock workers (was that "Johnny Fifty?") is now homeless.

Interesting to see the promotion of Daniels and Cheese in the same episode. There's a parallel there that I'll probably figure out better when I watch it a few more times.

What happens to Slim now that Joe is gone? Now he's a man without a country. I don't see him joining up with Omar, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

For that matter, I wonder now what happens to the co-op. I doubt that with Hungry Man and Joe both killed off in the same episode, people are going to be amenable to sitting around a table with each other from now on. The pull of the Greeks' good dope could keep it together, though. If the co-op splinters, the Greeks could lose business and that opens a new can of worms for Marlo.

I found myself less interested this week in the McNulty-Freamon serial killer plot, and I don't really know why. Maybe the episode was designed to feel that way. In a way, I hope it doesn't get thrown to the forefront until the war between Omar and Marlo's people sorts itself out.

Where was Bubbles?

A real "ugh" moment when McNulty drank the Listerine. A nice touch, probably written in by someone who has had close contact with an alcoholic.

So Herc owns a Mercedes now. Reminds me of a line by Kellerman back on Homicide - "no one said the good fight pays well."

That had to be humiliating for Herc to be in an office with Marlo as a client. I wonder if/how that will play out in the future.

Not sure why Clay Davis bothered to even show up for his grand jury testimony without a lawyer.

Why did Michael's mom need to show up to bail him out? Doesn't Marlo have a system in place?

Anyway, that's my series of random, unrelated thoughts...

Tim Masterson said...

That's a great screencap, Alan. The looks on Daniels face during that scene when you could really tell he was thinking, "Would he? Nah. Maybe. Nah!" was great.

That was second straight Bubblesless episode. I need to know that he's OK!

Maybe it says something bad about me, but I loved seeing Omar back in the streets of B-more, wearing his do-rag and trenchcoat. While Jimmy and Lester are under bridges digging their own graves, Omar is out there doing real investigative work. The scene with Omar and Slim Charles was terrific, with Charles lying on the project hallway floor. He probably felt like he saw the Devil and lived to tell about it.

And that last scene? Well... just damn. Marlo really does want that big crown. I guess Cheese also screwed himself, too. Now that Marlo has set himself up as the connection with The Greeks, it looks like the co-op will be buying the package from him. The split is 60/40, take it or leave it.

Kathy said...

This was the best episode of the season. I feel bad for saying this because Andre Royo is so great, but I was very glad that there was no time spent on the Bubs in recovery storyline. I think that's the weak spot in this season, Steve Earle is a jarringly bad actor, which would probably go unnoticed on other shows but in this show, where the cast is uniformly amazing, he sticks out like a sore thumb and he sucks the life out of every scene he's in. Love his music and I know he's a recovered addict so he knows whereof he speaks when it comes to this subject but...don't quit your day job, Steve.

This is "The Wire" and we don't normally see people get what they deserve but man, Marlo has to get his comeuppance, doesn't he? Please? I can't believe Prop Joe is dead. Interesting to see Omar still sticking to his word he gave Bunk about no more killing, leaving Slim Charles alive.

So many great things in this episode - Clay Davis getting grand-juried, Beadie getting tough with McNulty (throw the bum out on his ass, Beadie), McNulty and Lester going completely off the deep end (the teeth!), Mciahel's crew and the dog shit trick (and Carver's subsequent decision to bust Colichio (sp?)), Daniels and Burrell, Noreese getting Daniel's file and that scene with Marlo and Herc. Phew!

Anonymous said...

It is true that the loose end mentality of this show would seem to suggest that Marlo/Snoop/Chris might not receive their just desserts. But with the killings of major characters two episodes in a row I am not sure that the end of this season can feel balanced without some comeuppance. For Marlo/Snoop/Chris to emerge unscathed, Omar has to consistently fail at his efforts, which I don't see happening (and I should say I have not see any of the upcoming episodes so I have no idea what to expect). But on the other hand, it is also true that those in the profession of Marlo/Snoop/Chris have a pretty short life expectancy to begin with.

Brian Pack said...

Interesting to see Omar still sticking to his word he gave Bunk about no more killing, leaving Slim Charles alive.

Man's still got a code, and he believed Slim that he and Joe had nothing to do with Butchie's death. Omar did the same thing with Brother Mazzone way back.

Nice to see some more human side to Gus, and someone call him on his knowitalliveness. You can see Noresse working all she can out of both sides, but she seems on the offensive here and not the defensive (which is what you'd expect after the strip club/housing thing came out in the paper).

And of all the people in the world to understand why Carver had to do his job, it was Herc. Great, great episode.

mywaydimag said...

I thought this was a very good episode as well. David Simon and company have always had a great way of making us feel sorry for characters that we've previously viewed only with contempt. Tonight it was Burrell. Burrell's been seen as a hack for the past 4+ seasons but I think his little speech tonight about changing orders and politicians thinking they knew how to do his job made a lot of sense and put him in a more sympathetic light.

Great to see The Greek back, and I'm pretty sure that WAS Johnny Fifty with the rest of the homeless people. (According to imdb the actor who plays him is part of the Art Department so it wouldn't be far-fetched that they would throw him in there)

The gangster storyline looks like it's going to be excellent. Nobody gets more upset than me when people only pay attention to the street plots and ignore everything else, but I have to admit it's probably what I'm enjoying the most so far this year.

McNulty: This was less annoying than it was last week but maybe that was because we spent less time on it then we have in previous weeks. Beadie Russell is one of my favorite characters and I'm hoping we see a more of her as the season goes on...not just for her character but because she has so much represented the "New McNulty".

Finally, I'd say that my favorite part of this episode was the stuff with Herc/Carver/Collichio/et al. I've always thought that Herc, while certainly an idiot at times, didn't have the contempt for the public like some of the other officers (Collichio, Walker). Maybe seeing Marlo in Levy's office reminded him of just what it REALLY means to be a cop.

Anonymous said...

Wasn't Nick Sobotka also in the dock scene? (The one taken away by the cops)

Anonymous said...

Another fantastic episode. I was sad to see Joe go, but it was inevitable. Throughout the season, Marlo coldly, methodically used Joe, and his use for him was up now that Marlo acheived his connection with the Greeks. That was a hilarious line by Prop Joe about Omar when he said he would sit out "out of respect for that man's skill set".

About Callicio (spelling?), he comes across as a stereotype. He is the gung-ho, jacked up cop who is constantly pissed off and looking for confrontaions. It is a caricature, but I guess it is sadly accurate. There are some good police, but many cops are just like him, always hotheaded, and quick to throw down before thinking things through.

Anonymous said...

On a lighter note, did anybody wonder if Burrell would do anything with that golf putter when he was walking around Daniels (giving him the silent treatment)? I think he intentionally wanted to make Daniels think that, adding to his nervousness.

straight outta silver spring said...

great comments all around.

All I know now is that I am more behind Jimmy and Lester then I ever thought I could be.

The gotta get Marlo. But don't worry I'm not getting my hopes up on that.

the golf club thing with Burrell was awesome. reminded me, obviously, of Marlo's brief conversation with Bodie in S3.

Siddhartha said...

I have no knowledge of future episodes but right now I am really worried about Omar's line about going after Marlo's people in order to draw Marlo out. I am concerned what that might mean for Michael or Dukie. That would be unbelievably hard to take as a viewer.

Also, that scene with Nerese by the elevator makes me think that she will use that against Carcetti as soon as Daniels is made commish and run for governor herself.

But overall, I'm most worried about Michael and Dukie.

Siddhartha said...

by "that" in the previous comment, I meant the Daniels IA investigation file...sorry

Anonymous said...

Well, looks like Avon was right: They should have got Marlo when they had the chance. Hard to believe a savvy guy like Joe would be such a fool as help the viper sting him. Was he just getting old and soft and stupid?

At least Jimmy and Lester are covering their tracks pretty well. How convenient that Lester has a friend in the right place who hates Rawls with a passion and is completely willing to look the other way while J&L sexually mutilate corpses.

And yeah, that was Johnny Fifty in the homeless encampment. Love the little background details in this show.

Anonymous said...

This was a stand-out episode. This is an hour of the Wire that I will be able to just watch any time, most of the time I just watch the DVDs in order.

We got to see all levels of the city. I was glad to see Burrell have to go through what he put Bunny through, and have to fall on his sword. RIP to Prop Joe, a character that always made the most of his screen time, and despite his pofession a likeable man. And to think Prop Joe wouldn't give up Cheese last year after the robbery. Cheese's line about the CIA shht was funny. The best line of the night was Marlo to Joe "I wasn't made to play the Son"

When Lester pulled out those teeth I was rollin. Felt pretty bad for Beadie, but McNulty's life revolves around the case. So much good stuff, I try to wait for my 2nd viewing till the Sunday night premiere but I think I'll watch it again tonight.

Anonymous said...

Forgot to mention, does anybody think that McNulty writting up the 1st officer at the scene report for Lester's buddy will come back to "bite" him?

Anonymous said...

"Felt pretty bad for Beadie, but McNulty's life revolves around the case."

True, but it also revolves around booze and chasing tail. That is what Beadie was talking about when she said "That's not all you're chasing." That said, a sober, domesticated Jimmy is no fun for the show. It is much more entertaining when he is a boozehound and chasing women.

Tina said...

A few thoughts:

I don't remember if Johnny Fifty had any interaction with McNulty and Freamon in S2. I kept waiting for him to recognize them.

We so seldom see Lance Reddick's big smile that it was quite a surprise there at the end.

The Carver/Herc scene was nice. Glad to see the Randy story discussed again, if only to clear the air between these two, and to show how it's made Carver a different cop.

Great to see Amy Ryan again. That was a lovely, painful scene, well done. Likewise Slim Charles and Omar -- I'd like to think these two could team up the way that Omar did with Br. Mouzzone.

Ah, Prop Joe, I think I'll miss you most of all. One of my favorite secondary/tertiary characters, and probably the first time that saying "I got a proposition for you..." didn't work out for him.

Snot Boogie's Dad said...

Hey, I have a question. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out if, apart from Old Face Andre, there's anyone who's no longer alive because of Prop Joe. Did we say goodbye to our least murderous gangster ever? Or is it just that I
can't remember? (considering, obviously, that there must have been a few bodies when he came to power, pre-Season 1).

Anonymous said...

"I don't remember if Johnny Fifty had any interaction with McNulty and Freamon in S2. I kept waiting for him to recognize them."

I thought he did sort of give them a nod at the end. He may or may not remember them from a few years back. When Freamon was working the dock case, he and Bunk did go down to the dockworker's watering hole to sweat Frank Sobotka about the dead girls. I think Johnny was there.

Tim Masterson said...

I have no knowledge of future episodes but right now I am really worried about Omar's line about going after Marlo's people in order to draw Marlo out. I am concerned what that might mean for Michael or Dukie. That would be unbelievably hard to take as a viewer.

I think I just threw up a bit in my mouth thinking about those possibilities. Thanks, now I have something else to dread in the coming weeks.

Anonymous said...

"I've been racking my brain trying to figure out if, apart from Old Face Andre, there's anyone who's no longer alive because of Prop Joe. Did we say goodbye to our least murderous gangster ever?"

He did set Avon up for Omar, but Omar failed to capitalize. And he told Nick that he and Ziggy would be dead if not for Spiros. But you're right, sans Andre, I can't think of a scenario where someone has actually died as a result of his actions.

mywaydimag said...

Also Prop Joe tried to use Omar to set up Mouzone in Season 2. But the general point is a good one I think.

Prop Joe and Stringer were a lot alike in that neither one of them romanticized the game...they saw dealing drugs as a way to make money; didn't condemn it or revere it. The difference between the two is that Prop Joe was content to, in his words, "just sell the shit and move on." Whereas Stringer really tried to change who he was and become a businessman, etc.

Anonymous said...

yet another fantastic episode. My only issue is...Simon and Co seemed to fall into the formulaic trap of giving us the most insight into the doomed character's motivation, history and basic personality in the same episode he dies. I mean...they might has well have had a subtitle saying "Joe dies in this episode." I mean, i am clearly nitpicking because they spent a few episodes building to this and any network show would not devote any minutes to this.

But it is still a bit unusual for a show that does such a good job of turning TV conventions on their head. the only explanation i have is that this storyline fell victim to the shorter episode order for this year...normally simon would expand this storyline longer.

Also, anyone catch Joe's statement that Burrell was one year ahead of him in school? Any chance that kid who was harrassing Joe in the little prequel was Burrell?

Anonymous said...

"does anybody think that McNulty writing up the 1st officer at the scene report for Lester's buddy will come back to "bite" him?"

The thought did flash through my mind. But the report could probably be easily explained away: Jimmy was just out canvassing the area when he caught the call. It was just an ordinary death, after all, not one of the "serial killer's victims".

But, hey, with The Wire, you can never be too sure. I mean, who expected Joe to fall so fast and so easily?

Anonymous said...

JP said: "The bloodbath continues. Sorry to see Joe go, and even sorrier that Tom Shales' preview made me see it coming."

You are absolutely right. Luckily, I hadn't read that column prior to seeing the episode. However, since you mentioned this, I decided to check out the article you are referring to. Here is what he says:

"Indeed, one of the most affecting deaths to occur within the first seven hours is the casually committed assassination of an underworld kingpin, a figure who hasn't been made warm and cuddly but who does have a dignity and even a nobility about him that get to you in subtle, sneaky ways. His expiration is reminiscent of Abe Vigoda's famous farewell in "The Godfather," but with less overt pathos."

What a jackass Shales is. Sorry he ruined it for you. He basically spells it out that Prop Joe gets killed, by decribing him not so subtly. For anyone who gives Alan a tough time about giving things away from the first seven eps, he has done nothing close to what Shales has done.

Christy08 said...

What an episode. I've only seen it once and I was running on a treadmill so my observations are not complete yet.

However I am so glad someone mentioned how Prop Joe didn't give up Cheese to Marlo when he was questioning who was on the stash during the robbery.

If you think about it, this loyalty is what FIRST made it necessary to introduce Marlo to Vondas and the connect (which Slim and Cheese warned Joe about, but he really did not have a choice).

Also, someone mentioned that he was perhaps getting old. He WAS getting ready to leave town. He would have made it too if it hadn't been for the betrayal of Cheese, which I have to mention, I really didn't take him to be as ruthless as he has turned out to be. Did this surprise anyone else?

You mean to tell me he had it in him to kill Hungry Man (of course after he was delivered courtesy of Chris and Snoop) as well as turn on Prop Joe? Will he still be East Side or one of Marlo's employees now, what the %^&!???

Anywho, I'll be back after a second look.

--cg

Mark said...

Great episode, kudos to Ed Burns.

I think we're in very dark comedic territory now as far as the serial killer plot is concerned. I hope it doesn't come back to bite Lester in the ass. (Sorry, couldn't resist. Note to self: cut the profanity and keep up a collegial atmosphere.)

My favorite line: "You can just toss that." Spoken to Scott by his host at the Washington Post after his interview, seemingly in reference to his day pass for the building. I think Scott's arc is made to parallel McNulty's serial killer story: it's got potential, but not enough to get noticed. McNulty and Lester have to make the serial killer look more like the stereotype deeply ingrained in contemporary popular culture. I'm afraid Scott will have to go to similar lengths to get his reporting noticed. The Post is not interested as much in local color, but they've made it clear that they're in need of somebody who can give them good deep coverage on Maryland state politics. Scott then gets assigned to help with the reporting on the grand jury investigation of a state senator. It would be very ironic if Scott started to dig up or, more likely, make up dirt on Clay Davis, who is down and waiting/deserving to be kicked, and if the resulting public perception were to cause more problems for Clay Davis than DA Bond is prepared to create legitimately, since he won't allow his trophy case to go federal.

I have to admit I didn't see Prop Joe's demise coming as harshly and suddenly as it did. Sure, the man was on his way out: while Marlo was creating dysentery in Joe's ranks (to borrow a phrase from another HBO show), and with Slim Charles warning him that Marlo was up to no good, Prop Joe saw himself primarily as a businessman, a uniter, and a father figure to Marlo. In the end, the only one loyal to him was the mercenary Slim Charles; not his nephew Cheese; not his imaginary son Marlo. And just like Stringer Bell, who was betrayed by his closest friend, Prop Joe found out the hard way that the drug trade will attract people who don't see it as just another business, where reasonable people can come to sensible agreements. Marlo proves that in an unregulated market where literally anything goes, there's always someone who will try and likely succeed to corner the market and establish an absolute monopoly. Competition is tolerated as long as it yields information on how to conduct business, but once Marlo had received all the information he needed, he had no further use for Prop Joe.

Looking back it's clear that Marlo's sales pitch had been aimed from the beginning at Prop Joe's lieutenants, Cheese and Slim Charles. When Cheese gave up the info on Butchie, he demonstrated his willingness to work with Marlo. After that it was sticks and carrots. The carrot: the other dealer from the co-op whose territory Cheese had started to take over. The sticks: the dual threats from Omar and Prop Joe. Marlo apparently had no difficulty convincing Cheese that it would be either Cheese or Prop Joe, one of the two had to fall. The genius of the screenplay is that none of these things needed to be spelled out. (Incidentally, I don't think Cheese will live to see the end of the season, since he was nothing more than a pawn in Marlo's game. Plus Omar is back in town.)

It's great to see Cedric Daniels grin ear to ear once in a while. He deserved that one. We can only imagine that it won't last, now that Nareese has his file. And now that Daniels has firmly entered the political life, as has his ex-wife, they are prime targets for the US Attorney and the FBI, who are charged with investigating political corruption and who are out for revenge against city hall and the Carcetti administration. If I remember correctly from Season 1, the FBI is fully aware of Daniels' shady past: McNulty's buddy Fitz was the one who told him that Daniels is dirty, early in Season 1.

This is the second time that someone is trying to sell McNulty real estate. First wannabe-developer Stringer Bell in Season 3, now the beat cop freelancing as a realtor (or the other way round).

Anonymous said...

Can anyone confirm if that was the real Oscar "Bunk" Requere playing himself as Lester's old side partner?
I remember David Simon mentioning that Bunk Moreland was a tribute to Oscar, but I didn't see his name in the credits.

Fluffy said...

Quoting Christy08: You mean to tell me he had it in him to kill Hungry Man (of course after he was delivered courtesy of Chris and Snoop) as well as turn on Prop Joe?

Yup. Cheese betrayed Prop Joe in episode 3 by giving out the information on Butchie, acting against Joe's explicit instructions and against his business interests. Joe was primarily a businessman, and Cheese is primarily a gangsta. His inflated sense of honor does not allow him to let sleeping dogs lie, even when doing so would be good for business. He is driven by equal parts greed ("where my cheese?", presumably how he got his nickname), envy (Marlo suggesting that Cheese deserves to have more responsibility), and pride (resenting Omar for sticking a gun in his face on multiple occasions; even that is personal for him, it's not about business, i.e., failing to provide adequate security and getting robbed as a result). Plus he had to realize -- or if he didn't, Marlo or Chris could have easily convinced him -- that Prop Joe would have to give up Cheese to Omar. All Marlo had to do was to tell Cheese that he could put the word out that Cheese gave out the info on Butchie. Then Prop Joe would have no choice but to give up Cheese to save his own skin. It's like Bunk interviewing a homicide suspect: Marlo gave Cheese an "out", i.e. Cheese giving up Prop Joe is an act of self-defense.

beef said...

boy, the shirt that Marlo is wearing in that final scene is pretty appropriate. he is like a fiend for wearing the crown.

Anonymous said...

So, how long will Cheese last now that Marlo has gotten what he wanted from him? Why would Marlo trust the guy who gave up his own uncle? And Cheese certainly doesn't have the coolheadedness and intelligence of Chris or even Monk. He's just a dumb, loudmouthed hothead. He's a liability, not an asset. Cheese should've stuck with his uncle.

Water said...

"Can anyone confirm if that was the real Oscar "Bunk" Requere playing himself as Lester's old side partner?"

Don't think so....in fact it looks like "Gordon" from late 70's Sesame Street...

1. The scene with Kima and little Elijah reminded me of just how much this show can tug at the heartstrings. I got misty eyed for real.....

The demise of their relationship saddened me the most..more so than Cedric and Marla or Jimmy and Beatrice.....

"I hope it doesn't come back to bite Lester in the ass. (Sorry, couldn't resist. Note to self: cut the profanity and keep up a collegial atmosphere.)"

Great stuff Mark, chuckled out loud on that one.

dcdame said...

More trivia --

re: Johnny Fifty -- he's played by Jeffrey Pratt Gordon (& was in the credits for this ep). JPG was an ass't propmaster on HLOTS. I've always assumed that "Gordon Pratt" (the character played by Steve Buscemi in the "End Game" episode) was named as a nod to JPG.

Anonymous said...

More trivia about Jeffrey Pratt Gordon (Johnny Fifty): He had a brief cameo as a redneck in the HBO movie "Boycott", directed by Clark Johnson (who also had a small role as a journalist).

The Happy Contrarian said...

Another great episode of the best show of all time. Some quick thoughts:

1. One of my favorite openings of the show was during the second season, when Bodie went to a florist to buy flowers for D'Angelo's funeral. That same florist was in this episode, selling flowers to Prop Joe. Too bad the florist didn't get more lines in this episode, he was brilliant in the scene with Bodie.
2. Prop Joe and Slim Charles' first scene of the episode - where they spoke outside, about Omar - took place across the street from "New York Fried Chicken". In the pilot episode of the show, Wee-Bey is driving D'Angelo home after D was found "not guilty". D started commenting that the way Stringer et al turned the witness (the security guard) was "tight". Wee-Bey stopped the car and ordered D outside, where Wee-Bey lectured him not to talk shop in Bey's car. That little scene took place in front of "New York Fried Chicken". Wonder if it's a real place.
3. Great scene in Levy's office, i.e., the small talk between Herc and Prop Joe. This scene was reminiscent of last week's seen between Slim and Chris. These little scene's are so important to the show's richness in the way they provide depth and character background. There's been too few of these scenes/moments this season, probably due to the shortened season.
4. Another episode without Cutty (though it looks like he'll be back next week). Wonder if he's still "with" that nurse from the season four finale.
5. Another episode without Bubbles. I've always felt less is more with Bubbles but the writers dedicated episode two to him and last we saw him, he was not "feeling anything". It will be more than a little annoying if the next time we see him the writers have fast forwarded his rehab and he's got a girlfriend, etc. We've been through a lot with this character. If he's going to really clean up - like the real life Bubbles - then reward the viewer by bringing us along for the ride. Hopefully, this will be addressed in future episode. Still, there have been several "serial killer" scenes in the last two episodes which could have been edited in favor of Bubbs (or, for that matter, Carver, Cutty or Michael).
6. I could not be any less interested in the "serial killer" storyline. It's not just jump-the-sharkage, it feels like tone deaf writing. I expect to see this on Nip/Tuck, not The Wire. I'm tempted to fast-forward through every such scene. Really. What a waste of a story line for the final season.
7. Carver doesn't remember Randy's name. Interesting.
8. Lots of smiles from Cedric Daniels. Good to see this character finally happy, but don't look close. Looking directly at Daniels' smile as like starring into an eclipse.
9. I found the Johnny-Fifty appearance insulting. First, it's a not-so-subtle David Simon statement on capitalism. Simon's anti-capitalism tilt (based on his interview) and belong at a Huey Long (or, worse, John Edwards) rally. Does he really expect the viewer to believe that young workers will go homeless when their manufacturing jobs disappear? If Simon had his way, would we still be an agricultural society? Or does he thing that changes in the economy are fine but it's the responsibility of (big) government (i.e., the nanny state) to provide a life for each worker whose industry is in transition? If so, surely he's aware of the irony of wanting a dysfunctional institution (i.e., the government) to become even larger and have even more responsibility. Second of all, the Johnny Fifty appearance simply felt forced. Are we going to be subjected to more of these random, un-organic sightings? Is this "Lost"? Is Odell Watkins going to begin walking and communicating with Frank Sobotka's soul?
10. Joe, Joe, Joe. To quote Bob Dylan, "to live outside the law you must be honest". Joe wasn't honest, but, mainly, I just wanted a chance to quote my favorite musician. Whoever brings down Marlo is going to have to be extremely ruthless, ambitious and aggressive. Think - Avon circa 1998, the Greek anytime, or an Omar/Brother Muzone alliance (I have no inside info, I'm just hoping....).


That's it for now....

mywaydimag said...

Yeah I agree that the Johnny Fifty thing seemed a little forced to me. I suppose one could make the argument that the fate of one stevedore isn't necessarily a commentary on anything but just that one character's story. For all we know Fifty has a drug problem....he obviously has at least some history of (severe) binge drinking...hence the name. I doubt we'll hear any more about him, but nonetheless I'm willing to give the writers the benefit of the doubt.

But I agree it seemed a little forced and quite possibly overtly and unecessarily political.

Snot Boogie's Dad said...

I said at the end of Season 4 that my idea of a happy ending for The Wire would be something bad happening to Clay Davis (although Levy's just as bad). But now something bad should happen to Marlo too. I somewhat regret that this season has given us the only two one-dimensional characters in the entire series, Marlo and Gus. The same guy who was just complaining that he had too much money callously murdered the man who schooled him. Stringer the respectable businessman and Joe the pragmatist peacekeeper are both dead. Maybe Avon was the smarter one, he is in jail, but he is alive, and is likely to continue that way. I predict Chris will die relatively soon too, you get him, and Marlo suddenly ain't all that.

Anonymous said...

"I found the Johnny-Fifty appearance insulting. [...] Does he really expect the viewer to believe that young workers will go homeless when their manufacturing jobs disappear?"

Well, Johnny Fifty was already a pretty severe alcoholic when we saw him in S2. If he started hitting the booze even more heavily after he lost his job, he could easily wind up homeless if he doesn't have family and friends to take care of him. After all, there are plenty of youngish homeless guys on skid row.

Anonymous said...

I don't think Marlo will give any thought to Cheese from now on. He's not in his crew, he will just be someone to buy Marlo's package. I haven't seen past 4, but I assume Marlo will try and sell the Greeks dope and coke to the other Co-Op members at a steeper price. And for the most part their hand is forced

Snot Boogie's Dad said...

Happy contrarian: surely in your rosy view of capitalism no one ever gets left behind, but there are young homeless people in this country and not all of them because they want to be, so how about you post your moronic "nanny state" comments in Bill O'Reilly's or Rush Limbaugh's blogs and save your bashing of John Edwards (an admirable and decent man) for places where people discuss contemporary politics, rather than injecting your right-wing venom into a thread that discusses a fictional HBO show?

Algernon said...

"Does he really expect the viewer to believe that young workers will go homeless when their manufacturing jobs disappear?"

Are you asserting, confidently, that this could not happen? Do you know this from experience?

Anonymous said...

But Cheese betrayed his uncle because he thought he wasn't getting promoted fast enough. How long before he starts complaining to Marlo, or before he screws up again or runs his mouth about something he shouldn't? I doubt Marlo would be nearly so forgiving as Joe was. Anyway, I expect Omar or Slim will take care of Mr. Loudmouth and save Marlo the trouble.

KcM said...

Contrarian, I disagree pretty strongly with your politics, but, as a fellow Bob Dylan fan, you're alright by me. What's The Wire, if not a trainload of fools bogged down in a magnetic field?

Poor Slim. Granted, his fate (so far) is better than Avon's or particularly Prop Joe's, but now -- once again -- he's ronin.

It would seem almost inevitable that Cheese goes down now, probably at the hand of Omar. But, with Joe gone, it's hard to see who might take the "crown" if Marlo gets arrested (or killed) by the end of the season. There's no heir apparent anymore, although nature abhors a vacuum...particularly in Bal'more.

The Herc-Carver conversation, complete with western district beer cans, was a nice touch. It's so easy to hate Herc these days, what with Randy, Bubbles, Levy, etc. So it's nice to see Simon change it up a bit.

Which reminds me, regarding Carver and Colicchio, I forget: Did Carver know that Colicchio was arguably the main cop who brought down Hamsterdam (by talking to the press, etc.)? I was wondering if that was playing into Carver's decision not to back him, Prez-style.

One grace moment that hasn't come up yet is Daniels' holding down Rawls' desk for the first time. (His smile notwithstanding.) That phone call would seem to be the first nod to Rawls' closet orientation since Season 3.

beef said...

Herc was the one who dropped the dime on Hamsterdam

Anonymous said...

Can someone help me make sense of the Marlo/Greek connection? Was Vondos trying to get across to Marlo how much he trusted Joe when he kept reminding him that Joe was the one he worked with? (Remember him saying "and Joe") every two seconds, or was he putting the idea in Marlo's head that Joe was in the way? And what reason does the Greek have for now going with Marlo over someone he has had a longstanding, trusting relationship with? I'm just not getting this.
Also, does anyone think that Rawles' orientation will somehow come to light again, or is that one of those "what happened to the Russian" Soprano moments that we saw but will never be discussed again?

MC said...

The Happy Contrarian said...

"2. Prop Joe and Slim Charles' first scene of the episode - where they spoke outside, about Omar - took place across the street from "New York Fried Chicken". In the pilot episode of the show, Wee-Bey is driving D'Angelo home after D was found "not guilty". D started commenting that the way Stringer et al turned the witness (the security guard) was "tight". Wee-Bey stopped the car and ordered D outside, where Wee-Bey lectured him not to talk shop in Bey's car. That little scene took place in front of "New York Fried Chicken". Wonder if it's a real place."

Its real, but its probably not the same one Wee-bay stopped at.. there are several "New York Fried Chicken" places. I think the one across from the florist is on North Ave and Charles st.

Hilary said...

I watched the episode late last night, and this morning when I woke up, I had to convince myself that Prop Joe's death really happened. It seemed so surreal somehow. There was something so inherently troubling in the way that Marlo insisted on creating the terms of Joe's death, even beyond killing him. He had him shut his eyes... He basically tried to put him to sleep, like you do with an overtired child, to convince him of the value of letting go. On the one hand, it wasn't a crying, struggling death like so many others we've seen on the show (including Wallace's), but it was equally if not more disturbing. The hubris of Marlo! He called every shot. He told Prop Joe how to die. We've seen him overreaching, but this was beyond that... He's not going to be able to wear the crown for long, not like Joe did...

Knockout Zed said...

The fact that Marlo was THERE when Chris killed Prop Joe was evidence of his extreme arrogance. He has installed a puppet on the East side (and B'more County) beholden to him and he controls the West side. With this new connection to the Greek, he's bound to fall, hard.

Siddhartha said...

I thought about it a bit more...here's my prediction for how the whole Clay Davis storyline will play out based on this ep and what we've been told about the characters (again, I have no knowledge of future eps - I didn't even watch the previews for next episode!).

Clay's always been depicted as a cockroach and the one thing about cockroaches is that they're survivors above all.

I think Nerese will push for Daniels to become commissioner. Nerese will then make a deal with Clay Davis saying if that he can raise money for her illicitly for her own mayoral or gubernatorial campaign, she'll give him Burrell's file on Daniels. Clay will then take this file to Daniels and force him (out of his own happiness at his position, his ex-wife's rep, and Ronnie's rep) to put the kibosh somehow on the Davis investigation.

The great irony/lesson will be that even when B'more finally has a commissioner like Daniels who we, as an audience, have come to love that he will soon be in the pockets of slimy folks like Clay "Sheeeet" Davis and the cycle continues.

Tim Masterson said...

I'm just not getting this.
Also, does anyone think that Rawles' orientation will somehow come to light again, or is that one of those "what happened to the Russian" Soprano moments that we saw but will never be discussed again?


I doubt will ever hear about it again. It wasn't a plot point, it was an insight into Rawls' character. It wasn't meant to be followed-up on. The idea was to say, "Hey, see this huge jerk here who is always busting everyone's balls? Well, he is leading a secret double life."

todmod said...

Favorite moments that haven't been touched on yet:

- Prop Joe buying flowers for Butchie's funeral. The wording could not have expressed any more simply "Omar, if you're reading this, I had NOTHING to do with the death."

- Carver not saying anything when Herc asks if he thinks Herc deserved to be let go. A tense, truthful moment between friends, and as bad as Herc looks this season, at least he didn't protest that too much.

And I don't think Carver has forgotten Randy's name as commented earlier - it's just that calling him by name wouldn't help Herc remember him at all.

Marcus said...

Loved the episode. One moment that I thought was particularly great was when Burrell took out his smoking gun, the report on Daniels and Narese just threw it back at him without even opening it. I know she eventually took it with her, but I did love that after 5 seasons of build up, when Burrell finally tried to expose the dirt on Daniels to save himself it didn't matter.

Anonymous said...

Forgot to mention, does anybody think that McNulty writting up the 1st officer at the scene report for Lester's buddy will come back to "bite" him?

My impression was that the officer just wanted McNulty to write the paperwork for him but that officer's name would still appear on the report.

Water said...

Siddhartha said...

....Clay will then take this file to Daniels and force him (out of his own happiness at his position, his ex-wife's rep, and Ronnie's rep) to put the kibosh somehow on the Davis investigation.


But how? Burrell couldn't do anything for Clay so why would Daniels be able to? This is out of their hands at this point, Clay is wanted by people with more authority than the dept. higher-ups.

ME-NO-PAY said...

To the person asking about the Greek/Marlo scene in the shop from my perspective the Greek revealed his identity and got up to speak with Marlo because at that point he realized what he was dealing with "these are volitale times we can use insurance" he basically knew then that Marlo was about to take Joe out he even says something like "go, be safe" I watched that scene 3 times and that is exactly what happened. He basically gave Marlo the go ahead to remove Joe from the situation. One major rule of the drug game is that you never ever give up the connect NEVER huge mistake by Joe.

Anonymous said...

Slim Charles confuses me. Is he East Side or West side? I thought it was strange to move to be Joe's right hand after doing the same for Avon. I also assume he is still plugged into Avon, which makes Avon's 'F all those east side bitches' move on Joe interesting since Slim Charles is part of that.

Will there no longer be an east/west distinction now that Marlo takes out Prop Joe?

Joe made himself expendable by showing Marlo all the benefits of the cartel (vondas intro, money laundering, and Leavy).

Alan Sepinwall said...

Slim Charles confuses me. Is he East Side or West side? I thought it was strange to move to be Joe's right hand after doing the same for Avon.

Slim's a mercenary. Avon arranged for him to start working for Stringer after the Brother Mouzone thing didn't work out, and when everyone else in Avons' crew save Bodie went to prison, Slim hired on with Prop Joe. He's more loyal than your average gun-for-hire -- he was genuinely fond of Joe -- but he has no geographic ties the way an Avon or a Marlo did.

todmod said...

One thing I'm wondering if I missed that several people are referencing - when did Prop Joe ever help Marlo meet Vondas or the Greek? I thought that was all going on behind his back. He helped get Marlo clean money that he then brought to Vondas, but he didn't know what it was being used for. That was key to the whole thing, Prop Joe was helping Marlo with financial know-how, just not knowing how far Marlo was actually taking it.

mywaydimag said...

Marlo (and the rest of the co-op) met Vondas in the last episode of Season 4 after Omar had stolen the shipment. It was done to reassure the members of the co-op that Joe was telling the truth. After the meeting Marlo told Chris to put a tail on Vondas to find out more about him. One of the scenes in the season closing montage is of Joe and Vondas meeting with Marlo spying on them from the parking lot.

Anonymous said...

"And what reason does the Greek have for now going with Marlo over someone he has had a longstanding, trusting relationship with? I'm just not getting this."

You're not the only one. There are a few things I'm having trouble with this season.

1. Lester signing on with Jimmy's suicidal scheme.

2. Prop Joe trusting Marlo and taking him under his wing, even after Marlo demonstrated to the entire co-op that he was after Joe's crown (by openly tempting Slim and Cheese to strike out on their own). A real kingpin would have taken Marlo out at that point. (It reminds me of Tony Soprano forgiving Christopher after Christopher tried to shoot him. BS. No way.)

3. The Greeks shrugging off a longtime, trusted partner in favor of some scruffy punk fresh off the streets with no politcal savvy or connections.

It's great drama, but it's getting a little bit incredible, literally.

Alan Sepinwall said...

What the Greek is telling Vondas in that scene that it doesn't matter how much they keep insisting to Marlo that they want to deal with Joe, and not him; Marlo has made it clear that this is what he's going to do, so they may as well cut a deal with him and go along. If things with Marlo go south, they go south, but the Greek and his people are so far removed from the action that they'd be able to get out of town before the cops came to them.

Vondas has a sentimental streak, as seen with his reluctance to get rid of Frank and, especially, Nick. The Greek is all business, no more, no less. He can tell that Marlo is going to bump off Joe no matter what he says, so he goes with it.

Anonymous said...

I understand that the Greeks are untouchable and will do business with whoever happens to be running the co-op. But Joe is reliable and low-key and thus much less likely to attract unwanted police attention. He's someone you'd want to keep around as a business partner. Marlo is a pychopath likely to wreck the co-op and start bloody turf wars. Bad for business, as the Greeks like to say. Seems to me they'd back Joe and if Marlo happened to win, well, the Greeks would still be the only real suppliers of "the good shit". But there's no need to encourage a scruffy little street psycho to take out your longtime trusted associate.

Anthony said...

Small point, but troubling nonetheless.

In the scene where Cheese asks Chris for the money for giving up Butchie, it looked like the bills handed over were "clean". And as we know, Vondas rejects Marlo's gift because his money is directly from the street.

I'm not sure about this, but did anyone else notice that?

Siddhartha said...

Since Randy came up during this week's episode however peripherally, I'd like to ask a question about Season 4.

Did it bother anyone that Prez went to Daniels instead of Freamon with the Randy-as-informant info. Freamon was Prez' mentor from Ssn 1 on. With the way Randy's storyline eventually played out, it bothered me a little bit that Simon & co. had Prez unnaturally go to Daniels first just to put the tragic dominoes in place.

Thoughts?

mywaydimag said...

It doesn't bother me because Daniels, as Western commander, probably was better equipped to protect Randy from possible retaliation. Freamon's a great cop, but a Major will always have more pull than a Detective.

La G said...

I assumed Prez went to Daniels over Freamon as Daniels has more power, and Prez knew he had always been fair when dealing with his own chequered Police career.

@jp - re Michael's mother bailing him out. I've assumed that just like any other job, employment as a corner boy has got harsher. In the old days, working for Stringer and Avon, the job had certain benefits such as having Levy turn up when you're arrested. Work for Marlo and when things go wrong you're on your own.

I also think the only reason Carver didn't mention Randy by name was because he knew that would mean nothing to Herc.

Anonymous said...

Re Michael's mother bailing him out.

Maybe the police require a parent or guardian to pick up a juvenile. Does anyone know about juvie law in B-more?

dcdame said...

Re: New York Fried Chicken

There are several NYFC outlets around town, but the CityPaper has published some amusing bits on at least two of them:

http://www.citypaper.com/bob/story.asp?id=12523

“Best Place to Pick Up Fried Chicken and a Sex Toy”
[and just a few blocks from my office!]

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=12335

“Best Cheap Entertainment:
New York Fried Chicken, Friday Night After 1 A.M.”

SJ said...

That Randy reference really makes me want to know what's going on with him...

Anyways, I'll just mention the funniest scene of the episode: Marlo's shock at Herc sitting in Levy's office and the subsequent conversation. When Herc mentioned how he lost his job because of the camera I burst out laughing.

SoCal said...

What an amazing episode. R.I.P. Joe.

One thing i haven't seen mentioned here is the utter emptiness in the gaze of Marlo after Chris offs Joe. The man has no soul, and Jamie Hector really makes you believe it. Can't think of a more evil dude on TV.

I hope Slim teams up with Omar and they take out Marlo, to avenge Joe and Butchie.

But just an incredible episode. This show being on-demand is the ONLY reason i wish i had cable. Otherwise, long live DirecTv

Anonymous said...

I don't recall the reference to Rawls' orientation. What episode? what season?

mywaydimag said...

In Season 3 when Lamar (Brother Mouzone's muscle) is going into gay bars looking for Omar and gets into a scuffle with a couple of patrons. The camera does a quick pan of the bar and shows Rawls laughing at the scuffle.

When David Simon was asked about it he was extremely ambiguous about the whole thing. Maybe Rawls was in there looking to hookup, maybe he stopped in for a drink and isn't really gay, etc.

Rollie Fingers said...

//2. Prop Joe and Slim Charles' first scene of the episode - where they spoke outside, about Omar - took place across the street from "New York Fried Chicken". In the pilot episode of the show, Wee-Bey is driving D'Angelo home after D was found "not guilty". D started commenting that the way Stringer et al turned the witness (the security guard) was "tight". Wee-Bey stopped the car and ordered D outside, where Wee-Bey lectured him not to talk shop in Bey's car. That little scene took place in front of "New York Fried Chicken". Wonder if it's a real place.//


The NYFC in Ep. 4 (and the florist) is at North and Charles, close to Penn Station. The NYFC where Wee-Bey says not to talk in the car looked like it was in West Baltimore somewhere. It's an actual local chain with multiple locations around the city.

aml said...

I think Alan's right about The Greek giving the okay to Marlo to off Joe. Moreover, the Greeks probably feel pretty confident that they can take care of Marlo and his crew if things go wrong.

Kathy said...

I don't recall the reference to Rawls' orientation. What episode? what season?

Remember Brother Mouzone sent his lackey (I can't remember the guy's name) to try and track down Omar? And the lackey had to go into a gay bar and was really freaked out about it. When they were panning around the bar, they was a brief shot of Rawls sitting by himself at the bar. It was never referenced again until the end of S4, the episode where Bubs went in to confess about accidently killing Sherrod; Bubs threw up on Landsman (I think), who then went into the bathroom to clean up, and there was graffiti on the bathroom wall saying Rawls is a cocksucker. Whether this was meant literally (and his orientation is part of department gossip) or figuratively, we don't really know.

Anonymous said...

So if Omar takes out Marlo before Jimmy and Lester can bring the case in, is Jimmy gonna completely lose it?

Or, if Jimmy and Lester get Marlo before Omar can, is Omar gonna completely lose it?

Or will nobody get Marlo? Marlo gets Omar and Jimmy completely loses it?

(I haven't seen past this episode, so no spoilers here.)

Regardless, it seems things are going to end badly for someone we like. It's like one of those Connect-4 situations where no matter what you do you lose.

MC said...

I don't think Omar gets to Marlo.

I have no knowledge of future episodes, but Omar getting to Marlo would be too much like Omar getting to Stringer. That would be weak.

Anonymous said...

"I think Alan's right about The Greek giving the okay to Marlo to off Joe. Moreover, the Greeks probably feel pretty confident that they can take care of Marlo and his crew if things go wrong."

Yes, I know the Greeks more or less indicated to Marlo that they were okay with whatever he was going to do. But my question remains: WHY would they do that? Marlo is a loose cannon who's bad for business. Joe is a reliable longtime associate and a savvy businessman who keeps a low profile. What good reason would the Greeks have for rocking the boat? Now if Marlo hadn't received the Greeks' blessing and had taken out Prop Joe anyway, I'm sure the Greeks would accept the fait accompli and resign themselves to doing business with psycho Marlo. But why encourage psycho Marlo?

Anonymous said...

Thank you all for making me feel that I can come clean about my repeat viewings of each episode of the show. Honestly. It's a relief knowing I am not alone in my obsession. P.S if anything happens to Dukie....

TarDane said...

A few thoughts:

Shades of Fredo Corleone in Cheese when the underachieving kin went out and cut a deal on his own with people who were playing in a whole other league to the detriment of his family (see Fredo's deal with Roth in GF II).

Shades of Sonny Corleone in Cheese when the hot headed kin acted out in such a way that made it clear to others that not everyone in the family had the same opinion on certain things (see Sonny's speaking out of turn in the meeting with Roth).

Shades of Al Capone (as played by Robert DeNiro) slowly circling his prey with a baseball bat, as Irv slowly circled behind Daniels with his golf club.

Shades of a young Daniels who obviously took some cash he shouldn't have early on his career before him realizing that the job was bigger than the man, in Carver, who made his mistakes in taking cash with Herk, but now realizes that the job is biggerm that "somethings matter."

Good episode, even if (i) things are a bit rushed, (ii) Cheese selling his family out seems hard to believe, (iii) the stages murders are unfathomable, and (iv) Prop Joe should have been too smart not to see this coming.

Anonymous said...

"When David Simon was asked about it he was extremely ambiguous about the whole thing. Maybe Rawls was in there looking to hookup, maybe he stopped in for a drink and isn't really gay, etc."

But it does tie in nicely with Rawls's habit of calling people "cocksucker" and his penchant for graphic heterosexual metaphors. It hints at the self-hatred of the closeted gay who tries way too hard to sound like "one of the guys". Compare him to Omar, who is quite comfortable with his sexuality and doesn't feel the need for crude sex talk or obscenities.

dcdame said...

"Remember Brother Mouzone sent his lackey (I can't remember the guy's name) to try and track down Omar? And the lackey had to go into a gay bar and was really freaked out about it."

I presume you mean Lamar, who was portrayed by DeAndre McCullough, the real life guy from The Corner (portrayed by Sean Nelson in the mini-series), also the son of Fran Boyd (who this summer married the guy who, in part, was David Simon's inspiration for Omar) and the half-brother of De'Rodd Hearns (who has appeared in The Wire several times and who has been a post-production ass't/apprentice editor on the show).

It's all connected . . .

emul said...

"It's like one of those Connect-4 situations where no matter what you do you lose."

I love a good Connect-4 reference.

Hey, did anyone else catch who Omar was referring to when he was doing surveillance and he said that one guy was Marlo's lieutenant and that they would start with him? I watched a few times, but couldn't make it out. Are we supposed to recognize the person?

straight outta silver spring said...

^
It was Monk. That's the guy Omar said he was going to hit first.

straight outta silver spring said...

As far as The Greek encouraging Marlo to kill Prop Joe. I think he merely recognized that Marlo was going to do what he needed to do. In a way I think The Greek is impressed with Marlo, I don't know, but there was something in his expression when he said "he is not Joe" that made me feel this way. Maybe he agrees with Marlo that Joe is too soft? Vondas, on the other hand, I think would definately prefer Joe to Marlo.

I'm a bit worried for Carver. He totally did the right thing, but he career just might go to shit because of it.

emul said...

Oh, it's just Monk--phew! I figured it couldn't have been someone too important. Thanks for the info.
And, is it just me, or has Carver (or rather, Seth Gilliam) put on some weight? His face looks...rounder.

Anonymous said...

"Maybe he agrees with Marlo that Joe is too soft?"

Maybe the fact that Joe even let this snake into the co-op in the first place was proof enough for the Greek that Joe was going soft in the head. Still, it does seem uncharacteristically clueless of Joe and reckless of the Greek.

straight outta silver springa said...

"Maybe the fact that Joe even let this snake into the co-op in the first place was proof enough for the Greek that Joe was going soft in the head. Still, it does seem uncharacteristically clueless of Joe and reckless of the Greek."

Good points. But, Prop Joe and the other East Side Dealers needed Marlo in the co-op so they could take care of the NYC boys who were moving in on their East Side territory. Getting Marlo in the co-op, I imagine, was a way to put Marlo's resources to work and at the same time was a way for Prop Joe to keep his enemy close.

As it turned out I really think Prop Joe kept on teaching Marlo all the ins an outs as a way to form a bond, keep Marlo happy and in the co-op - business was good.

In the end, Prop Joe seemed to for a bond and Marlo obviously didn't.

Anonymous said...

"Prop Joe and the other East Side Dealers needed Marlo in the co-op so they could take care of the NYC boys who were moving in on their East Side territory. Getting Marlo in the co-op, I imagine, was a way to put Marlo's resources to work and at the same time was a way for Prop Joe to keep his enemy close."

Yeah, until Marlo openly tried to suborn Slim and Cheese into turning on Joe, right in front of the whole co-op. If Joe had had any brains or spine left, he would have ordered a hit on Marlo, pronto. Call in Brother Mouzone and a few other heavy hitters to take the punk out. Otherwise you look weak and stupid and everyone will come after you.

As with Lester's sudden embrace of craziness, I think the writers should have better prepared us for Joe's sudden collapse into weakness and stupidity.

slow train coming said...

That Marlo/Greek thing bothered me a lot, but I decided that, since the writers of The Wire have never ever disappointed me, I will trust them and just go with the flow on this thing. I thought that Joe’s death was done well. As the last season and first few episodes of this season seem to indicate, it is ALL about Marlo now. Nobody is immune and nobody matters. Marlo’s desire to become a serious criminal is what drives everything. Joe, whom I liked a lot, was only there to serve a purpose. The moment his value to Marlo’s development dropped close to zero, he was out. Simple as that. Now, he the king.
I (maybe some of you too) may think that Marlo, with his corner mentality intact, cannot successfully occupy Stringer’s and Joe’s chair but that’s only because I believe that co-op should be run as a business. Marlo has clearly indicated that he doesn’t give a shit about running things as a business. So, he will play this new level of the game HIS way. And it will be interesting as it will be frightening to see.
When it comes to The Wire, I really do not engage in speculation but all this Marlo and Marlo/Greeks thing got me thinking. The Greeks, due to the scope and sophistication of their game, are obviously way more serious and way more brutal than our boy Marlo. Their victims are left faceless and headless; their reach goes deep into the government; they operate on a worldwide scale; their business is diversified; they easily obtain multiple personalities/passports; they left 250 KILOS (!!!) of heroin like it ain’t no thing…List goes on. We are talking international crime conglomerate here. Imagine Lester’s intonation here: Baaabeee, now that is a case!! Exposing and stopping such operations would be more significant than taking out our corner-ass crude. Certainly, both would be replaced in no time and business would go on, but how many of us would actually be willing to sacrifice Marlo’s demise in order to get the Greeks?! All this is pure speculation and hypothetical discussion but I am so emotionally invested in seeing Marlo’s demise, in whatever shape or form, that I would not be able to accept such thing as a reasonable compromise. Or it would take me multiple viewings to get on board with that option. Weird isn’t it?

wirefan said...

I hope I am not reading too much into this, but there was a line that Lester had that gave me chills, I can't quote it exactly (sorry) But it is when he and Jimmy were prepping the corpse and Jimmy made Lester promise never to tell something (I can't remember what) and Lester says "I'll take it to my grave." Knowing this show and knowing that there are hardly any throw away lines, I hope that I am wrong about that being foreshadowing.

Donny said...

re: Lester saying "I'll take it to my grave"

Jimmy said something along the lines of "don't ever tell my mother or my preist" referring to the teeth bit, I believe.

I think part of the reason we saw Marlo's lack a business-savvy side was foreshadowing his weakness. Now that Joe is out of the game (in more ways than one), Marlo will have to be the brains of the operation as well as the muscle. We saw in episode 3 that he cannot handle the "business like" part of the "game". I'm not sure how that will come back to haunt him, but I'm thinking it will. Maybe he makes a stupid mistake with his money and that's how he gets caught?

Ziggy said...

Listen to Michael K. Williams (AKA Omar Little) interviewed by Terry Gross on NPR's Terry Gross.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18299087

Sidenote, a friend of mine bumped into Omar, Marlo, and Chris P (rather, the actors that play them) in Union Square, and said that Michael K. Williams was very amiable, and willing to talk to him for a bit.

Enjoy.

Anonymous said...

I read it all and I'm just glad to be with fans of the same show I am, because my friends are only sometimes viewers. I haven't embarked on a real conversation about my beloved "The Wire" in three years.

I have no idea of spoilers or any previous knowledge of anything, but there are some plotlines there is one plotline unfolding that is completely obvious. McNulty is going to cross paths with the Daniel Glass esque reporter from The Sun that is Templeton and they're going to run with the serial killer angle. How can you diehards not see this? Yes, that was Johnny Fifty under the bridge, but how could you complain about this? He is an excellent example of the urban decay that plagues this country. We are all being replaced by machines. Old theme, but still Simon is right for using this example. Yes, Slim Charles is a mercenary and is now a man without a country, but remember where his true loyalty lies...with Avon...who to my delight is now a force again. Their blood runs deeper than water, remember that in S3, as you bloggers call it, Slim was Avon's right hand, not String. The underlying plot of this whole season might be Avon playing Marlo like a chile....Avon's been in the game for a much longer time and respects the ideals that it's been founded on much more than a two-bit fake gangster like Marlo could ever imagine. As much as Avon hated Omar, remember his anger towards his people's breaking of the "Sunday Truce". He himself said the "truce is as old as the game itself".
As to Kima and her ex's son Elijah, that could've easily foreshadowed how she gets through to the lone survivor of the home invasion that she's the lone detective on. We saw her watch from the box as that kid didn't want to talk to police. Later in the episode we see her break down her "nephew's" defense mechanisms by playing a simple round of legos. To my recollection that kid was all smiles, and the kid that was left as the lone witness to Chris and Snoop's slaying of Junebug and his family was a child around the same age.
Now to Narese, she took that file about Daniels, which we've been hearing about since S1 and is definitely going to use it against Carcetti, no doubt. She has never made any secret of her ambition to be the mayor.
RIP Joe, but you had to see that coming. All playing into Avon's hand. Marlo has to go down, Chris has to go down, Snoop has to go down. I can't wait to see Monk get killed (he shot my boy Butty), and Omar has already said he's the first he goes after. I'm just scared that Michael is now in the line of fire since Omar said he's going to go after Marlo's people first.
Best show ever on TV, my heart is in every second, but it makes we wonder. Are we really this broken? Is there really no chance for this? Are democracy and capitalism the wrong ways to go about this? My favorite show in the history of television is pointing to yes.
God bless all of you and keep the debate alive forever.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone find it odd that Herc is now originally from NY? In season 3 when Carver asks him the hypothetical what guy would you sleep with in order to get the Olsen twins, Herc eventually responds, "Gus Triandos".

We learn from Herc that Triandos was a catcher with the O's back in the day and used to catch Hoyt Wilhelm's knuckleball. Unless Herc is a baseball encyclopedia, it seems an odd choice, given his roots in NY.

Water said...

Did anyone find it odd that Herc is now originally from NY? In season 3 when Carver asks him the hypothetical what guy would you sleep with in order to get the Olsen twins, Herc eventually responds, "Gus Triandos".

We learn from Herc that Triandos was a catcher with the O's back in the day and used to catch Hoyt Wilhelm's knuckleball. Unless Herc is a baseball encyclopedia, it seems an odd choice, given his roots in NY.


Not odd at all, check it:

I grew up a Yankee fan in NYC but one of my favorite players was Jorge Bell of the Toronto Blue Jays..why? Same division, AL East, I saw a lot of them growing up....Same as the O's so it would make sense for young Herc to know so much about the team even if he didn't live in the city....