Wednesday, March 04, 2009

Lost, "LaFleur": That '70s show

Spoilers for tonight's "Lost" coming up just as soon as I get my reel-to-reel going...
"James, are you sure you know what you're doing?" -Juliet
"Not yet. But I'll figure something out." -Sawyer
"LaFleur" wasn't a mind-blowing episode of "Lost," nor one where we can spend a lot of time picking over it for clues about the larger mythology. (UPDATE: Apparently, I was wrong on this. 200 comments and counting!) But boy, was it fun.

Having shown us Dan in the '70s in the season premiere, and having shown Jin driving the magic bus and wearing a Dharma jumpsuit at the end of "316," the writers didn't have much of a surprise left in showing that the rest of Sawyer's motley band also wound up hanging with Horace Goodpseed and company. But that's fine, because the storytelling model of the last few seasons means that every now and then we need a filling-in-the-blanks episode, and this was one of the more entertaining ones they've ever done. Sometimes it's nice to have an hour of "Lost" that's relatively straightforward (even with the frequent Three Years Later/Earlier jumps), that doesn't require an advanced degree from the Dr. Sam Beckett Fan Correspondence School for Quantum Theory to make sense of, that's simply about the pleasure of watching a great character like James Ford doing his thing -- and, for that matter, the pleasure of watching Juliet Burke do her thing right beside him.

I've always enjoyed Sawyer, but separating him from Jack (both during season three and this season) has been good for the character. It forces him into a leadership role, and he's even more appealing as a reluctant hero than he is as a charming irritant. The very nature of "Lost" allows the show to explore lots of genres -- sci-fi, horror, action-adventure, espionage, soap opera, personal drama -- and their archetypes, and Sawyer the con man fits well into so many of them. Here, we got to see him be all Steve McQueen (with Juliet, I suppose, as Yul Brynner) in his confrontation with the two Hostiles (the looks they trade are pure McQueen/Brynner in "Magnificent Seven"), but also to see him as the crusty but benign boss in an off-beat period workplace drama ("The Dharma Years?").

The look of pure joy on his face as Juliet told him about the successful delivery (see above) was matched only by the look of relief on Juliet's face. Josh Holloway and Elizabeth Mitchell played so well off each other throughout the episode, and sold all of the emotions as the two of them slowly assimilated into life with the Dharma Initiative. Though I like Sawyer with Kate (especially if the alternative is Jack with Kate), Sawyer and Juliet fit so well together that it was almost disappointing to see him set eyes on Freckles again at the end.

(Now that Sawyer's been with Juliet, who used to be with Jack, who's been with Kate, who used to be with Sawyer, we've finally got a legitimate love quadrangle. Quick: can anyone name an interesting love quadrangle in TV, movies or literature? Comic books? Cave paintings?)

"LaFleur" gave us a Sawyer who was finally at peace after three years of waiting for Locke to show up, and it also gave us a Sawyer who had gradually learned to let go of lying. Sure, he's still using the name Jim LaFleur, and he still has Jin searching various quadrants of the island for Locke and the others, but he's content, and he's found love, and he manages to save the day -- and win a job as Dharma's new security chief -- by telling Richard Alpert the complete and unvarnished truth. (Isn't it funny how good things can happen when people on this island share information with one another?)

I just had a great time throughout even as I wondered, like Juliet, what the point is of the Oceanic Six coming back. Locke re-aligned the wheel, the jumps stopped, the nosebleeds stopped, everyone other than Charlotte is more or less okay, if stuck 30 years in the past, so what am I missing here? What plans does the island have for the Six (and for Desmond, and, hopefully, Walt) that have nothing to do with the needle-skip problem? And how mad are Jack, Kate and Hurley going to be once they realize that they apparently didn't need to come back to save everybody?

I look forward to finding all that out, especially if upcoming episodes are as strong as this one.

Some other thoughts:

• The fine folks at the "Lost" Easter Eggs site wasted little time in getting up a screen capture of the four-toed statue in all its original glory, albeit from behind. It's probably a higher-quality than the one I made, but feel free to start analyzing either version for clues about just what this thing is. It looks Egyptian to me, particularly the things in its hands, which look sort of like ankhs. But Cuselof definitely lived up to their promise to show us the statue again, even if they didn't explain it or show us its face.

• Though this was primarily a Sawyer episode, with a generous serving of Juliet, I don't want to overlook Jeremy Davies continuing to knock it out of the park as poor, grieving Dan Faraday. The look on his face as he recognized little girl Charlotte in the '70s was heartbreaking.

• Speaking of Charlotte, interesting that her body didn't go with them (or stay with them) on the last jump. I guess whatever force was moving the rest of Sawyer's group (or holding them in place) has no power over (or interest in) the dead, unless maybe they're being touched by the living.

• After four and a half seasons of "Lost," Daniel Dae Kim finally gets to stop speaking in pidgin English. In our brief glimpses of him in the Three Years Later scenes, it's clear his time among the Dharma-ites has done wonders for his language proficiency.

• I'm a little confused about the marital status of Horace Goodspeed. When he was first introduced in season three's "The Man Behind the Curtain," he was traveling with Olivia, the character played by Samantha Mathis, and it was at least implied (enough to convince the folks at Lostpedia) that she was Mrs. Goodspeed. And Olivia was seen again as a Dharma schoolteacher when Ben arrived on the island as a little boy. Yet here, Horace is free to marry Amy as her rebound guy, so either we all misread the Olivia situation, plans changed for that character, or something more complicated is going on there.

• Speaking of "The Man Behind the Curtain," did it establish whether there were fertility problems in the Dharma days, or only after the Hostiles overthrew them? Clearly, it wasn't an issue back in the '70s, so whatever caused all the miscarriages has yet to take place.

• A good week for Hey, It's That Guy/Girl!s on "Lost." In addition to the return of Doug Hutchison as Horace, we got Reiko Aylesworth from "24" as Amy, Patrick Fischler (recently seen as comedian Jimmy Barrett on "Mad Men") as Phil and Kevin Rankin (Herc on "Friday Night Lights," and the only good thing about the "Bionic Woman" remake) as Jerry.

• Still waiting for Rose, Bernard and Vincent to send up a signal flare. Are we to assume that they're also somewhere in the Dharma village, and we just didn't get to see them this week? And, as usual, what about Cindy and the kids? Or are they supposed to be immune to the jumps somehow like the native Others?

• Note that Sawyer refers to Richard as "your buddy out there with the eyeliner." I guess they had to reference it sooner or later within the show, even if Lindelof and Cuse insist that Nestor Carbonell isn't wearing any eye makeup.

Finally, in case you missed it this morning, please take a quick skim through the guide to posting comments before you start to weigh in. Okay?

What did everybody else think?

238 comments:

1 – 200 of 238   Newer›   Newest»
groovekiller said...

Is the baby Karl?

Or maybe the baby is named Jacob? Remember in Cabin Fever, Horace is building what will become "Jacob's Cabin"?

Andrew said...

Why do people insist on calling it a quadrangle rather than something more regular-sounding like a rectangle.

MPH said...

GREAT episode. Really enjoyable.

Quick question - if they did get off the island, would they go back to real time 1995? Or would they still be stuck in the 1970's? Because I could see Sawyer and Miles having a strong inclination to buy a lot of Apple and Microsoft stock and start betting on some sports teams a la Biff Tannen...

groovekiller said...

Quadrangle?

Ennis Del Mar <> Jack Twist
Ennis Del Mar <> Alma Del Mar
Jack Twist <> Anne Hathaway's character?

Carmichael Harold said...

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode (though, after watching Sawyer with Juliet, I really wish Jack had left Kate in LA).

By the way, I take it from Sawyer killing the two Others that Daniel's whole "we can't change anything"-theory of time travel has got some holes in it.

Alan Sepinwall said...

Groovekiller, that would require Michelle Williams and Anne Hathaway to have had sex. Not that there would be anything wrong with that, but without that, no quadrangle. Just cheatin'.

Alan Sepinwall said...

By the way, I take it from Sawyer killing the two Others that Daniel's whole "we can't change anything"-theory of time travel has got some holes in it.

No. Daniel says that whatever happened, happened. In the closed-loop theory, Sawyer always killed the two Others.

MattB said...

I'm not sure if I agree that this episode was light on mythology - the stuff about the truce, monitoring of the Hostiles, etc. was all pretty interesting.

Any scenes with Richard in them are great in my book!

Matt B said...

Also I think this episode further proves that most of the better episodes this season so far have been sans-Oceanic 6.

Anonymous said...

I believe the reason Charlotte did not go with them is because whenever the donkey wheel is pushed, the island (not the castaways) moves. It wasn't a regular time flash, and Charlotte was already dead, so she couldn't move through time.

Jordan said...

That was one quick hour, this was old school.

My instant reaction to the statue (besides "wow" then uncontrolable happy laughter) was that it was Anubis, and the hi-res pic makes me continue to think that. However, since there is a character named Horace, it could be Horus. I still think it's Anubis, though.

This is really the first time in Sawyer's life that he's been happy, that he's had something at the end of the day to go home to.

Like gk, I also thought it's baby Jacob, although I don't know how that would work out with the timeline, since Richard is aware of Jacob in the 50s (prophecy?).

David said...

Regarding the four-toed statue possibly holding ankhs, I think that's exactly what they are. Especially since the necklace that Amy removed from Paul's body was itself an ankh.

Alan Sepinwall said...

Okay, so does Anubis have four toes in Egyptian mythology? Does he have toes at all?

Alyson said...

Fantastic episode, probably my favorite of the season. Not a Jack/Kate or a Jack/Juliet fan, because Matthew Fox seems to have zero chemistry with both Elizabeth Mitchell and Evangeline Lilly.

I really hope they get around to addressing the ageless Richard Alpert sometime soon, because it's driving me bonkers.

groovekiller said...

I'm a bit of a mythology buff...could the statue be of Anubis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anubis_standing.svg

He's the Egyptian god of death and he is holding an Ankh which was a major plot point in tonight's episode.

Additionally, Anubis is often portrayed with 4 toes on his hind legs (he's half man, half jackal).

Myles said...

I'm not sure if I agree that this episode was light on mythology - the stuff about the truce, monitoring of the Hostiles, etc. was all pretty interesting.

I think you're right, but the episode totally put it into the background through some really subtle character work.

Would the baby have survived without Juliet? And would Dharma have been able to hold off Richard if Sawyer hadn't been there in order to keep the attack from commencing? It asks us why these people were left in 1974, and yet the whole point of the episode is slowly watching that question fade away: it doesn't actually matter, since Sawyer and Juliet settle into this peaceful existence beyond the "why" question.

I go on about this at length in my own review, so I won't go on with it here, but in the end this was a great episode because of how it used character to lull us into the same sense of security, and then slowly made us realize that something as simple as Kate's arrival or as complex as Locke's return are waiting to uproot this peace and send everything back into chaos.

Great stuff.

Alan Sepinwall said...

I'm not sure if I agree that this episode was light on mythology - the stuff about the truce, monitoring of the Hostiles, etc. was all pretty interesting.

Oh, there was definitely backstory, but it wasn't the kind that completely changes your perception of the show, is all I meant.

groovekiller said...

Groovekiller, that would require Michelle Williams and Anne Hathaway to have had sex. Not that there would be anything wrong with that, but without that, no quadrangle. Just cheatin'.

World best deleted scene? :)

Carmichael Harold said...

Of course you're right, Alan. I forgot to do my Twelve Monkeys refresher before I posted.

studda said...

great episode,until kate showed up.i hope that doesn't mess up what james and juliet have.

Jordan said...

Alan-Anubis has the feet of a man, although I'm not sure about his toes. But he's almost always depicted carrying ankhs and he has pointy jackal ears like the statue. Plus no less than an anthropologist said "This place is death."

groovekiller said...

OK, I wasn't breaking the rules...I was just held up looking up that Anubis pic! I swear!

Don't banish me, Mr. Sepinwall!

This PDF talks about Anubis' portrayal with four toes...

www.gizapyramids.org/pdf%20library/holden_fs_dunham.pdf

Amy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alan Sepinwall said...

Anders --> Kara --> Lee --> Dee

Amy, I asked if anyone could name an interesting quadrangle.

Anonymous said...

Closer

Ben said...

What a fantastic episode! Seeing the HUGE statue would have been more than enough, but that was just the beginning! I would say, top five Lost episode of all-time


- Damon often likes to compare Sawyer to Han Solo. This episode he, Josh Holloway, was more than that. Sawyer used his con man skills for good and certainly put his thinking cap on along with his heart light. He was brave, funny, clever, charming, honest and did it all with out me ever thinking he was trying. The look on his face when Juliet tells him the good news about the baby (it is the pic Alan posted on this topic), wow….the scene talking about forgetting Kate, amazing. Josh Holloway probably will not get nominated because the show gets overlooked, but this is the episode he should submit to the academy…”you know, the guy with the eyeliner!”

So after three years of holding out hope that Locke and the rest would return, Sawyer finally gives in to the moment. And right then, SHE (kate returns)...wow
- Ok, we have now seen Jack and Sawyer in a relationship with the same two ladies. After this Sawyer/Juliet coupling (Julyer? Sawiet?), the debate over who is the better actor is officially over, we have a knockout. Sawyer/Josh Holloway has much more chemistry with both Kate AND Juliet. Seriously, has there ever been even a quasi-love interest in entertainment history with less chemistry than those two? However, today, come on, Sawyer scores!

- Charlotte died, and then didn’t travel. Hmmm, does that mean that the all the people that Sawyer/Juliet/etc have been meeting – in the past – have died OR are no longer on the island? I had to add the last part to account for Widmore and Hawking. However, the fact that Charlotte didn’t keep moving with them, well let’s just say her Facebook page will most defiantly have a “status” update. “Charlotte is dead” at 2:17pm/

- I love this show.

J said...

This was a great episode, 100%, a solid A. It was a smart way to fill in blanks -- introduce a few new ?s to keep us off-balance (and answer them smartly), touch upon some old unfinished business just to keep it in play, revitalize a couple characters' hearts. Everything they couldn't do back in 2009 L.A. Whether the characters do or not, the SHOW belongs on the island.

Sawyer had turned into Wisecrack Guy and needed to re-establish his charm and his competency. Check.

Four stars on this one. Of course, now that Jack's back, it will all go to crap. That's probably why there's a week between eps. We can enjoy the high from this one that much longer.

MattB said...

Does anyone think that there is any significance to Sawyer and crew being stuck (initially) in 1974? Thirty years before the crash of Oceanic 815?

The Oceanic 6 are also transported back 30 years in time (2007 -> 1977).

Michael said...

Wow. can Josh Holloway act or what? Even in that last scene, his eyes said more than most actors can with words.

and his pure joy at the birth was great to watch.

A thoroughly enjoyable hour.

How could Rose and Bernard have gone 3 years on that island without being found?

groovekiller said...

Did Anders and Dee do it?


Well in real life, there were those 2 Yankee pitchers who not only swapped wives but swapped lives (incl. kids, dogs, houses, etc.): Mike Kekich & Fritz Peterson

MattB said...

So after three years of holding out hope that Locke and the rest would return, Sawyer finally gives in to the moment.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was interpreting all of the "three years later" scenes to show that Sawyer and Juliet to be in a relationship throughout - their relationship didn't start with the kiss we saw in this episode (what a way to start a relationship - with "I love you"'s). Am I alone on this?

arrabbiata said...

Been a very good season overall, but enjoyed this episode in particular. What I took from this one most was the evolution of Sawyer. The self preservation instinct and the intelligence has always been there, but I don't recall ever seeing this kind of leadership from him before. I like it. (Lord knows Jack hasn't done so well when he's making the plans) I look forward to seeing what happens with the gang getting back together.

And the giant statue? Woohoo!

Michael said...

Anders and Dee never did it.


Ya, i think that relationship must have started close to three years ago. If not immediately after joining Dharma, it was still a long time ago.

Anonymous said...

Is it bad that after enjoying the episode thoroughly, my stomach sank when I saw Jack and Kate show up?

Alan Sepinwall said...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was interpreting all of the "three years later" scenes to show that Sawyer and Juliet to be in a relationship throughout - their relationship didn't start with the kiss we saw in this episode (what a way to start a relationship - with "I love you"'s). Am I alone on this?

No. Clearly, sometime between two weeks later and three years later, they shacked up.

Devin McCullen said...

OK, this I will spoil from the preview - No New Episode Next Week.

Yeah, just an all-around quality episode. They did leave one giant unanswered question, though - Where's Ben during all of this? I know Lostpedia isn't canon, but they claim he was born in the early 60s, and came there when he was around 8-10. So from 74-77, he definitely should have been around.

I mean, maybe he didn't interact with them much, although obviously Charlotte did. Actually, I kind of want to see a 12-year-old Ben looking adoringly at Juliet, have her put the pieces together and completely squick out. (Bad enough Ben had the hots for her, but it's from when he was a little kid? Yipes.)

I'm sure some people thought it was too anvilicious, but the "Can you stop loving someone in 3 years" bit didn't bother me, because it wasn't like we didn't know where this was going. We know Jin found Kate and the guys, and that he's working with Sawyer. That reunion was inevitable.

Matter-Eater Lad said...

Bill Adama <-> Galactica
Saul Tigh <-> Bill Adama
Laura Roslin <-> Bill Adama

Amy said...

groovekiller, no Anders & Dee never hooked up. Foiled again. Now I'm at a loss to name a real quadrangle at all, much less one that satisfies Alan's crazy-high-critic-standard rule of being interesting.

leopoldbloom said...

I don't think the baby is Jacob, because if so who is Richard Alpert taking orders from? My two guesses are that Desmond is the baby, and that Horace, based on his hairdo, is the guy in the chair in Jacob's cabin from The Man Behind the Curtain.

Anonymous said...

I loved the episode, but I am concerned about where we are going. Do we really need another love tri/quadrangle? I also have never been among the Jack haters, but seeing him at the end was disheartening. I guess I really enjoyed seeing Sawyer step up without Locke or Jack around. His leadership skills may seem unorthodox, but notice how nothing catastrophic seems to happen when he makes decisions? I also liked the way they slowly built up to his leadership status, with Miles questioning his decisions and such. I suppose my problem is that I am concerned about what may happen once the O6 are back with the rest of the gang. As many others have stated, the best episodes thus far (aside from Life and Death of JB) have taken place exclusively on the island.

Michael said...

Everyone has lived for three years now after the original 815 crash - Sawyer's crew from 1974-1977 on the island, and the Oceanic Six from 2004-2007 on the mainland.

Amy's baby could be Miles.

Apparently I missed the eyeliner gag. I need to stop deleting the program from my DVR after watching it.

Bryan said...

Great episode - re previous comment I don't know if it's better because it's sans O6 or just because they're on the island. I guess we'll find out next week (oops 2 weeks - CRAP!).

Gotta love shaved, smiling Sawyer - he just so happy and content.

Rick said...

Thanks to one episode where Zach & Jessie almost kiss, I invested a ton of my preteen years in the Jessie - Slater - Kelly - Zach quadrangle.

But if you want interesting, how about the original quadrangle: Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice?

Oh, and Lost was good tonight- left me wanting more. Why no new episode next week?

Vic DiGital said...

Solid episode. Filling in some blanks, but doing it in style.

We watch TV with the subtitles on, and when Three-Years-Later Jin first started talking, the captioning said "Jin (fluently) Whatever it was he said".

I used to be a card-carrying Lost fanatic, and frequent poster over at TheFuselage.com, (does it even still exist?), but after the disastrous first part of season three, I lost my fanaticism.

Now I'm happily just a really big fan of the show, retaining enough of the minutiae to realize when a critical mystery is being explained, but not enough to where I can put together a coherent timeline. I know Lostpedia has one, but I'm now content just to follow along week to week. For example, I remembered Horace Goodspeed's face and name, but had to go to Lostpedia to remember any of his details. But that lack of remembering didn't lessen my enjoyment of this episode or this show.

Lost looks like it's confidently moving towards a brilliant final 20-something episodes.

groovekiller said...

If Sawyer exists in the "2004-2005", then he had nothing to fear in meeting Richard Alpert, right?

Since the 816ers are all living in 2004-2005, they can't potentially die in 197x, if I have that right...

That kinda sucks any drama out of shootouts and the like, eh?

(Not that I didn't lurve this episode)

Jill said...

First things first- God, I love Juliet. While watching the episode tonight, I turned to my husband and said, "I'm trying to figure out which I want more: to be Juliet or to have sex with her." (Yes, my husband appreciates me.) Every scene with her and James was amazing, and while I liked her before, I realized that I now love her when the sight of Kate and the possibility that Sawyer would go back to her, made me seethe with rage.

Now, onto my idea/theory. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an egyptologist (likely the only 8-year old in the tri-state area) and while that was a long, long time ago- I think that the 4-toed statue might be of Anubis, the jackal headed egyptian god who served as guardian to the underworld. Anubis also acted as the psychopomp (yay for Doc Jensen at EW) for souls on their way to judgement. He weighed souls and fed the unworthy to a deity whose name is escaping me at the moment, but which now reminds me of the Smoke Monster. A quick web search seems to indicate real, non-mythical jackals have 4 toes on their hind feet, just like our statue.

We've seen hieroglyphs on the island, most recently on the temple and I remember reading that the countdown timer read "Underworld" in hieroglyphics- which would track with the Anubis theory. I thought it was telling that the necklace was an ankh, the symbol for eternal life, given that Richard Alpert (always a treat to see him) seems to have found the secret to living forever.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts!

Ben said...

Anonymous MattB said...

So after three years of holding out hope that Locke and the rest would return, Sawyer finally gives in to the moment.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was interpreting all of the "three years later" scenes to show that Sawyer and Juliet to be in a relationship throughout - their relationship didn't start with the kiss we saw in this episode (what a way to start a relationship - with "I love you"'s). Am I alone on this?

----------------

I think you misunderstand my term of the word "moment". It is not kissing Juliet by itself. It is about the life he has, a leader, a hero, a man. These are qualities the old Sawyer did posses, at least not often.

Earlier in the episode he tells Jin that they will "wait as long as they have too", but when he tells Horace the story about forgetting Kate, we know that, even if just for a short while, Sawyer has forgotten about the past and is living in the "moment".

J.J. said...

Alan, your "Sawyer finally let go of lying" perception interested me, because I read it the exact opposite way.

I thought he was lying to the guy when he said that three years was enough to get over somebody. And the way he looked at Kate at the end (and the fact that he didn't bring Juliet along for the reunion) makes me think he must've been lying about being over Kate. (Also, we find out Sawyer's pretty much been lying nonstop. And I imagine he'll be lying nonstop in the episodes to come -- since he's got newcomers on the island, and since people might want to know what's up with him bringing Juliet the mechanic into the delivery room.)

At any rate, the Jack-Kate-Sawyer reunion is a disappointment for me personally, because I hate the way the show works when she's around Sawyer and Jack at the same time. I really wish she'd ended up on the other island (and perhaps in another time?) like Sun and Locke. That way her character could still be used without being near characters who always suck her into moody love-triangle territory.

BTW, wasn't Horace married to the blonde schoolteacher in previous Dharma flashbacks? Did they ever explain what happened with her (and I just glossed over it), or...?

ithor6 said...

groovekiller, it doesn't actually work that way. The Sawyer and co. that exist in 2004-05 traveled back in time to 1974-77 where they could conceivably die. Depending on ages, Sawyer and co. could be existing in 2 places in 1974-77, on island and off island as infants. Those infants then go on to be the Sawyer and co. in 2004-05, so we know they can't die.

Omagus said...

Clearly, sometime between two weeks later and three years later, they shacked up.

I've felt that something very small has been growing between Sawyer and Juliet ever since Jack and Kate left; the former two have had to serve as de facto leaders/decision makers and that brought them into some sort of truce or understanding, at the very least.

When Juliet agreed to wait at least two weeks with Sawyer, that was the blossoming of something a little bit more and that obviously grew over the next three years.

This is possibly my favorite episode of the season, and one of the best in a while. Like Alan says, maybe there weren't a lot of clues dropped but it was definitely a lot of fun. Watching Sawyer and Juliet...I was HAPPY for them in a way that I was never happy for Sawyer/Kate or Jack/Juliet (and I've been pretty apathetic about Juliet's character since she first appeared).

Does anyone remember about when Ben and his father first joined the Dharma Initiative? Is it clearly after 1977?

Rick said...

Oh, thought of another one- I really enjoyed 'Closer'- the Clive Owen/ Julia Roberts/ Jude Law/ Natalie Portman movie from a few years back.

Devin McCullen said...

Oh yeah, almost forgot. When Amy faked them all out with the earplugs, I said to myself "Idiot. Should have known they're not getting the drop on Michelle that easily."

But I couldn't place Jimmy Barrett for some reason. It was annoying me.

Jill said...

Hi Alan- I know you are pre-screening comments now, so this is mostly directed at you- I've never commented before, so i didn't know to refresh before posting, and in the time it took me to straighten out my thoughts, Anubis showed up as a dominant theme. Sorry. I've learned my lesson, next time- refresh, then click "publish".

Alan Sepinwall said...

BTW, wasn't Horace married to the blonde schoolteacher in previous Dharma flashbacks? Did they ever explain what happened with her (and I just glossed over it), or...?

Check the bullet points in the review. I mentioned her.

andythesaint said...

So... did the Others seek out Juliet because she had past experience in helping birth babies on the island?

Steve said...

I wouldn't rule out the statue being Horus just yet.

Horace is the leader of the group... it's quite coincidental, unless that's the beauty of the red herring.

My problem with it being Anubis, is that as the god of the afterlife/preparation for the afterlife, it brings the theory about the islanders being in purgatory back into the discussion.

Though if it is Anubis, I'm guessing the Temple that holds the smoke monster is like a mausoleum of sorts. Additionally, the jackal is not too dissimilar from a dog to the point that it can't tie into Vincent.

I wonder if Anubis (jackal), Vincent, and the Smoke Monster are connected. The noise of the smoke monster sounds like a chair... dog chain?

KC said...

One of those episodes where the characters' faces tell the story better than the words.

From what I recall in Egyptian mythology the role of the god Anubis is to protect the dead and guide them to safety in the afterlife.

Speaking of relative time, that hour just flew by!

Bryan said...

The small things in this episode were terrific - Daniel, in his grief, not being able to talk was perfect for the relatively straight forward tone of the show. His talking (though I really enjoy his character) just seems to convolute everything.

Also was it just me or did anyone catch the synchronicity between Sawyer and the audience at the end when Jack jumped out of the van - "Oh, great, here comes Mr. Buzzkill"

Greg said...

I'm wondering what the connection between the Oceanic survivors are that made the island decide to drop Hurley, Jack and Kate onto the island three years in Sawyer's time after they left, making it uniform between everyone for how much time has elapsed (as Michael mentioned). There's no reason (to me) why they couldn't have been dropped in days after they left and I hope there's a reason besides convenience.

I'm also disappointed that we didn't get to see a scene where Jin joyously greets the returnees and they realize that they're in the past. And it's too bad Sawyer's three year transformation had to rushed through in one episode.

groovekiller said...

Thanks, ithor6 , I think that makes sense.

So that being said, how about this theory? Daniel in 1974 doesn't tell Charlotte in 1974 not to come back to the island, but rather somehow gets in touch with young Daniel in 1974 to tell him that he has to devote his life to finding a way through science to alter the space-time continuum so that he can save the woman he loves.

And that's why, Dan's all cry-ee mcgee when he first meet him. His experiments have failed on his girlfriend at the time and he knows the plane crash on TV means that his time to find the "solution" has run out.

Matter-Eater Lad said...

"Since the 816ers are all living in 2004-2005, they can't potentially die in 197x, if I have that right..."

No, because 2004-2005 is in their past. Given their ages, some or all of the I6 (and now Kate, Hugo, and Jack) are existing in two places (the island and wherever they are off-island) at one time, but at two different points on their personal timelines.

Andrew said...

Sawyer's hair is much more at home with the Dharma Initiative back in 1974 than in the present.

Jack and Kate really are the two least interesting characters on the show.

J.J. said...

About Horace and the blonde lady, I saw that you mentioned it, Alan. But I was mentioning it again because I specifically wanted to bring up the possibility that they already explained it somewhere.

Because it didn't really throw me off right away when they revealed she was his wife, which made me wonder if they'd already somehow explained it (or hinted at it) and that's why it took me awhile before I got to wondering what the deal was.

I might have to go back and find the episodes dealing with Horace building that cabin out in the woods, to see if there was any mention of his marriage/wife there. Like, did they specify he built it for him AND his wife? Or was it after her, maybe? I was thinking maybe he got it into his head to take up some crazy project (as many people in the history of this show have) when he was confronted by some drama or loss.

Michael Peterson said...

Mrs. Bullock / Seth / Alma / Ellsworth ?

Michael Peterson said...

Or... would Ellsworth need to be interested in Mrs. Bullock... dangit.

groovekiller said...

Dillon High > Panthers > Eric Taylor > Tami Taylor

Alan Sepinwall said...

Dillon High > Panthers > Eric Taylor > Tami Taylor

Tami doesn't want to sex up the Panthers. It was her sister who was hot for Riggins.

RSR said...

Great episode. Even though I felt like at times I knew what was coming it was told in such a compelling way that it didn't matter.

I've got to say, I've gotten quite the Egyptian lesson from reading through these posts. After learning that Anubis is the god of the underworld or death or all that jazz that you smarties have taught me, I thought that may be connected to the idea of these resurrections that seem to happen on the island, specifically Locke and Christian (maybe?). Not to mention all the ghosts that hang around throughout the show.

On the other hand, we might never find out what the deal is with the statue and I'd be perfectly fine with that too. The writers have done such a good job that they mythology of the island that far in the past, while interesting, is so much less relevant to the key stories in the present. (Emphasis on "that far", I still would love more info on the pendulum, why the island moves, the smoke monster, etc.)

Sawyer was brilliant this week. That goes without saying. I never was a huge fan of Juliet but throughout this episode I found that by the end I really liked her. The chemistry the two had was believable and won me over. Which made me conflicted when I saw that telling look in his eyes as he saw Kate.

Gotta let the episode sink in a little more, but overall loved it...as is usual these days.

On the quadrangle thing:
Here's an unconventional one, with a little leeway,
Buffy-->Angel
Angel-->Drucilla
Drucilla-->Spike
Spike-->Buffy

But that depends on if you count Angel and Angelus as two different characters or not. Still it jumped out as a definite possibility.

The Rush Blog said...

"Also I think this episode further proves that most of the better episodes this season so far have been sans-Oceanic 6."


Amen to that, brother. But now that the O6 are back . . .

Myles said...

In terms of quadrangles...Clone High?

JFK > Cleopatra > Abe > Joan

virgil said...

Random thought concerning Richard:

With all the talk of Anubis and Ankhs, has anyone else considered that Richard could very easily be cast as an Egyptian, especially with the "eyeliner"?

And is it a coincidence that the Orchid's portal leads to northeast Africa-- Tunisia, is it?--which makes me wonder if Tunisia was ever part of the Egyptian empire, and if any of these musings have any weight at all, what they might mean....

John F said...

Tyrol-Sharon-Helo-Athena (depending on if one follows the logic that Athena has some knowledge of what having sex with Tyrol would be like).

The actress playing Juliet is one of the best cast additions this show has made. Despite what some say, her and Matthew Fox were far more interesting as a potential couple than Jack and Kate ever were. The fact that she worked so well with Sawyer is a testament to her acting abilities too. That's in addition to all the other excellent character work she's done being the baby-doctor-of-death.

I also believe that Sawyer was lying to Horus when he said he'd forgotten about Kate over the three years. He seemed more like he had made peace with the fact that she was likely gone forever and that he was going to make the most of the situation by allowing himself to fall in love with Juliet. I guess its back to relationship drama island.

Oh, and I think Dan wasn't touching Charlotte at the moment they time shifted so her body was left in the past and decomposed over many years between whenever they were and 1974.

groovekiller said...

Dillon High > Panthers > Eric Taylor > Tami Taylor

That suggestion was more of a love quadrangle than a sex quadrangle.

Maybe this would have been a better "love quadrangle"?

Town of Dillon > Panthers > Eric > Tami

Tami did love Dillon enough not to leave for TMU with Eric...

Byron said...

Someone else did Buffy, but I think this one matches better:

Buffy, Faith, Xander, and Angel.

That worked because a lot of it was kept pretty subtle, and most of the relationships were never consummated. But when it came up, I think it was very interesting, with perhaps the Xander-Faith connection being the weak point.

Weezy said...

How about Midsummer Night's Dream with Lsyander, Hermia, Helena, and Demetrius?

I relish these kinds of episodes because it allows some of my favorite characters to really show their ability and range.

I noticed during the siren, Daniel went in the direction towards child-Charlotte. I wonder...

As stated earlier, I wished Kate ended up in the different timeline. This is mainly due in part because I like seeing her character play off someone other Jack or Sawyer. But also--I dig Juliet. After losing her sister, nephew, and Goodwin, I want her to have some peace.

I've been thinking about what kind of justice could be had from taking Paul's body. Perhaps a ritual? Or as a way to later manipulate Amy or Horace in the form of Paul's appearance? hmm...

Jill said...

Byron-If I remember correctly, Faith was the one who deflowered dear, sweet Xander.

Tyroc said...

Outside of the moment in the season opener did we see Farriday in the three years later part of the 70s? Maybe he took off.

The timeline of when young Ben arrives on the island has me a bit confused as well, but I assume we'll get to it.

Great episode.

Byron said...

Yes, Jill, she did. I meant "weak point" as in least interesting. In truth, I thought about it more, and the Buffy connection an earlier comment made really is better than mine.

Teev said...

The good news, Sawyer shaved and we can see those dimples. The bad news, his hair is somehow even worse.

This was a fun episode. I like the idea that everyone has had 3 years go by (except Locke, right?) and it would be great if that had actually changed any interpersonal dynamics but it sure looks like it hasn't. Family reunion makes you revert I guess.

We're positive the new socks are in 2008?

It seems to me that the whole "we're hanging out with the Dharmies in 1974" blatantly disproves the closed loop theory. It seems a bit much that no one remembers them come 2004. Considering that time travel is theoretically impossible I don't know why Daniel is so rigid about what he thinks the rules are.

On the other hand, all the Dharmies but Ben die when he betrays them, right? Of course the Others would have seen them in 74 and 2004. And maybe the donkey wheel stop and go was what screwed up the fertility (or the Others haven't figured out they have to give up immortality if they want to join the circle of life). And I liked that idea about Big Dan warning Little Dan and that's why he was crying.

Such a great show!

Ebenezer said...

You mention Rose, Bernard, etc., but what about Claire? Is she moving through time also? Is she dead? Are we ever going to find out what exactly happened to her?

Brian said...

For the love quadrangle thing, how about the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer and Mickey are dating those two women and neither of them can decide which one they like more? Of course, Mickey ends up marrying the wrong girl, and at the wedding we find out that Jerry is an anti-dentite bastard.

jim treacher said...

Fred > Wilma > Barney > Betty

So, Sawyer gets to be happy for all of one episode! Half an episode, really. Then stupid Jack and Kate have to show up. I didn't even realize I'd grown to hate them until this week.

As for Horace's blurry marital status, I'm wondering if Sawyer & Co. changed things when they saved Amy. Daniel says whatever happened happened, but what does he know, really? He's crazy as hell!

Not only is Richard Alpert apparently ageless, but he's been wearing the same outfit for over 50 years. I'm still wondering if there's some sort of time travel thing going on with him. Although then he might not act so bewildered when people he's never met know all about him...

Omagus said...

We're positive the new socks are in 2008?

The main reason for thinking this is because Caesar said that Hurley and some other disappeared, right?

If that's the case I guess Locke not time traveling can be attributed to his being dead. But what about Ben and Frank (assuming he is the pilot that Ceasar and Ilana mention)? And what are the theories on Sun and Sayid?

Jill said...

Sorry Byron, I misunderstood your post, i thought you meant weak carnal link- and then got caught up remembering the deflowering scene, which made me laugh.
Another possible Buffy polygon would be anything involving The Immortal-who got with Buffy, Dru and Darla- all of whom, seemingly, got with both Angel and Spike. I keep racking my brain for an 'Angel' example, I feel like there is (or should be) one there, but it's eluding me.

Omagus said...

It seems to me that the whole "we're hanging out with the Dharmies in 1974" blatantly disproves the closed loop theory. It seems a bit much that no one remembers them come 2004.

On the other hand, all the Dharmies but Ben die when he betrays them, right? Of course the Others would have seen them in 74 and 2004.


Yeah, Ben kills everyone else in the Dharma Initiative so these people aren't alive when Oceanic 815 crashes.

Now Alpert, on the other hand, is another story. As of right now, he's the only person that we know is alive in 1974/7 AND 2004/7 and has met with an Oceanic survivor in both timeframes. By 2004/7 he is definitely familiar with the idea of time travel but how much has he shared with anyone else?

Mark B said...

OK – I have read all the comments thus qualifying me as a nominally legitimate commentator. First of all, Sawyer as the wise and loving sage is a wonderful character twist. Secondly, why were Paul and Amy on a truce breaking picnic outside the sonic fence? Was this required to differentiate life from the body? Trading the body of Paul for the bodies of the two others is the negotiation establishing Sawyer a valuable person. It is the action making him DHARMA worthy and thus worth residency on the island. Things that make you go … hummm.

Byron said...

Jill, if you're really willing to push it, I think you can count Angel, Wesley, Lilah, and Fred. It's pretty weak, though.

Oz said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...

are we ever given a reason for the others attacking/killing amy and paul if there was an ongoing truce? wouldnt that have been an obvious question to put to amy at some point.

i feel like the prime minister of new zealand at the moment. "grrr!"

that said loved the episode although i have to admit i wasnt feeling daniels pain this week.

Anonymous said...

quadrangles have to happen in movies and plays all the time, right? (just due to the economy of characters) yet the only one that comes to mind is that Meg Ryan - Matthew Broderick movie where they connive to break up their exes and then of course wind up falling for each other.

also, though this no doubt violates the "interesting" threshold-- did Pacey and Jen ever hook up on Dawson's Creek?

oz

BigTed said...

"Isn't it funny how good things can happen when people on this island share information with one another?"

Alan, I saw the encounter between Sawyer and Richard Alpert as just the opposite: Yet another case in which two "Lost" characters would have a million questions for each other and fail to ask any of them. I suppose the inscrutable Mr. Alpert might have good reasons for not getting into why someone in the Dharma camp knows John Locke -- but what's Sawyer's excuse? You'd think he'd at least ask something along the lines of, "Hey, Richard, what the hell is your deal, anyway?"

Otherwise, I also enjoyed this episode a lot. Oh, and as for the statue... I'm guessing we only saw it from the back because its face will turn out to be that of someone we know very well.

otto said...

Ted>Robin Barney>Himself

CamiloL said...

Hello Alan, great column you have! I really liked this episode, the way they handled a character plot with some crusts of mithology... great.
I do have a burning question (well, one among many): where is Ben in this timeline??? he must be in the isalnd around this time... well, I hope we get good anwers this season, but the craving for the sixth will be unbeareable!!
Greetings from Bogota.

Girly said...

i wonder what does break the truce.
will the actions of any of the 815 have a hand in that?

and yeah, we didn't see Daniel 3 years later in this particular episode. but remember way back in the first(?) episode we saw him as a worker who bumps into Chang at the construction site of the orchid.

belinda said...

Thank you for Jimmy Barrett. I knew I knew that face, but had the hardest time trying to place him.

Not to get all girly on you, but Sawyer sure is a charmer. I was melting into butter by the end of the episode. That smile. No wonder Juliet stayed. How could she resist? But anyway, it made for a really enjoyable episode, even without all the timey whimey stuff. Their chemistry was incredible.

But on the non girly side of things, this episode definitely had a lot of information packed in, all loaded,ready to be blasted off in the episodes to come. Me likey. (Though, as some of you've said, whatever happened to Rose and Bernard and the beach people? If they haven't been found by Sawyer by now, perhaps they are a part of/captured by the Others with Richard instead?)

Quadrangles: Not strictly one, but
Michael-Buster-GOB-Marta were surely hilarious.

Toby O'B said...

This has been a great 12 months for Patrick Fischler - biggest role would be that of Jimmy from 'Mad Men', of course, but he's also been on 'Burn Notice', 'The Middleman', 'Cold Case', and 'Pushing Daisies'.

Has Doug Hutchison put on weight? For most of the episode he was reminding me of Jason Alexander in that 'Criminal Minds' episode. If so, then Horace must have gone on a diet before the last time we see him - in his living timeline - on the bench.....

I didn't realize at first that was dynamite in Horace's mouth at the beginning. I just thought he was getting his cigars from the same place Rush Limbaugh does.....

"How could Rose and Bernard have gone 3 years on that island without being found?"

Maybe they're "Adam & Eve" in the cave?

otto said: "Ted>Robin Barney>Himself"

To get a friend hooked into HIMYM, I told him it was the 'Lost' of sitcoms......

I wonder if the manifestation of ghosts doesn't kick in until after the catastrophic event that caused the problems with childbirth? Or do the Dharmies ever get confronted by the ghosts of those who died before 1974? Like the Other who got his neck snapped by Charles Widmore......

As for the statue? I'll say it's of the elf Legolas, carved in tribute by his dwarf friend Gimli. It's the ultimate crossover: 'Lost' and "LOTR"!

And speaking of which: The Ring-Frodo-Sam-Rosie Cotton......

Hey, it's 5:00 in the morning......

Potter said...

I have to say that Lost is making less and less sense every episode. The writers keep adding these storylines that are backed up by nothing. It seems like none of the characters are really aware or care about how bizarre of a situation they are in. Why does John Locke need to die in order for the Oceanic 6 to come back to the island? Why do they need to come back to the island to save the others? Why do none of the characters ask any questions? I mean, we havn't even really gotten a clear answer on what The Others were dong on the island, and Juliet is one of them. Why dosn't she tell them in detail who exactly The Others are, what they were doing on the island, and all the details that she knows about the island. Why don't the rest of them try to get more answers from her. Who are the Dharma initiative? Its obvious that they are doing research and stuff, but I just find it really strange how Sawyer and people don't just ask them wtf is going on? It seems like none of the characters care about getting answers anymore. This show is pissing me off. Anyways, if you missed tonights episode, check it out online here...

http://watchloststreaming.com/season-5-episode-8-lafleur/

...and try to see if my rant makes any sense to you.

Nickname unavailable said...

If nothing else, this explains why the Others never killed Sawyer (on the raft, in the jungle, at their camp) when they've had a chance in the past. Richard knows Sawyer must survive to travel back in time for their meeting.

Nickname unavailable said...

One more thing: how is the submarine able to find its way back to the island so easily when aircraft have such trouble? Bread crumbs?

EOTW said...

Why is there no ep next week? What the heck?

Anonymous said...

Is Charlotte's body still in Crazzy Large Four Toed Statue Time?

If so, is she the female skeleton that Jack and Kate found in the caves.

Maggie said...

How could Rose and Bernard have gone 3 years on that island without being found? who says they haven't been? Just because we didn't see them in this episode, doesn't mean they aren't already living in Dharma-ville with Vincent.

Also, I think it has been established that Ben/Locke and the plane are not on the main island but on "Alcatraz," and somehow that island hasn't moved through time in the same way.

In regards to the question of why the O6 had to go back, if it appears that their friends don't really need their help - what about Claire???? Part of the reason Jack is driven to return is his guilt over learning that she is half sister, that he facilitated Kate's taking on the role of Claire's child's mother, while all along they left Claire behind. I know it's possible Claire is dead - but there is no reason for Jack (or Sawyer or anyone else) to believe that, since all they know is she wandered off in the middle of the night. When she was kidnapped by Ethan they spent days looking for her, and they didn't know if she was alive. Why would they feel any differently now? (Yes it still irks me that Sawyer seems to have forgotten about her, yet now is riddled with guilt that Locke, a guy he's been at odds with more than once, was swallowed up in a well.)

Not to mention Jin and Sun's inevitable reunion! There are many reasons for the 06 to return...

One holdover question from last week: it still puzzles me that Sun is so sure that Ben is at fault for killing Jin, when only Ben and Locke know about his killing Keamy and setting off the explosion. We know now that Locke/Bentham never visited her, so she didn't learn it from him, and I still don't believe Ben told her. Why would she ever go to the man (Widmore) who brought the explosives and the soldiers (a fact she'd have learned from Desmond and Sayid) for help in getting back at a man (Ben) whom she has no reason to blame?

Last thing - if Sun and Lapidus are on their way from Alcatraz to the main island, what time will it be when they arrive? Does Lapidus know the right coordinates to sail back through a 30 year wrinkle in time?

Alan Sepinwall said...

You mention Rose, Bernard, etc., but what about Claire? Is she moving through time also? Is she dead? Are we ever going to find out what exactly happened to her?

We'll find out next season. Cuselof have said Emilie de Ravin won't be on the show this year but will be back next.

Alan Sepinwall said...

are we ever given a reason for the others attacking/killing amy and paul if there was an ongoing truce? wouldnt that have been an obvious question to put to amy at some point.

I think it was implied by what we heard of the two Hostiles yelling at her that she and Paul weren't supposed to be having their picnic there. Presumably the truce establishes a specific area of the island that the Dharma-ites are allowed to be in.

Dweeze said...

One thing that really hit me the moment Sawyer said it was when he told his group that they would have to lie and always keep up the lie. It was a nice parallel to Jack telling the O6 that they would have to lie and always keep up the lie. And so we have the two groups beginning to meet, both having spent the last three years lying to everyone around them.

By the way, never understood the Fox hatred so many have - he has the most thankless job on the show. Jack is the glue that holds it all together. /rant

Anonymous said...

Does ANYTHING top those dimples????

Anonymous said...

"As many others have stated, the best episodes thus far (aside from Life and Death of JB) have taken place exclusively on the island."

Every island-related ep this season so far, which I take it is what you mean by "thus far"... also involved Jack and the gang in L.A.... so... this was the very first episode of this season to take place exclusively on the island, actually. Maybe it just felt like some of those eps were all about Sawyer and Juliet and co, but they weren't, they were flipping between island and mainland all the time.

...

Also, regarding all this love quadrangle stuff (as someone else said, why not rectangle? Or hell, just a love square... guess people love dem -angles-suffixed words)... I think people are forgetting that most love triangles in fiction aren't true triangles in that you can draw a point for all 3 people and then draw lines between all 3 people. Most of the time, the two men or the two women in a triangle aren't getting it on, and it's chiefly the two hetero pairings that are at work. It's thus more of a V-shape than a true triangle.

Similarly, in the Jack/Juliet/Kate/Sawyer square, there are no lines between Jack and Sawyer, Kate and Juliet. Now, you can make a square from the four relationships by putting Jack-Kate first line, Juliet-Sawyer second line... but if you just draw lines between the current pairings in M-F order (Jack/Kate off the island in 04-07, Sawyer/Juliet on the island in 74-77), you'll end up with a hourglass figure.

To me, an Anders-Kara-Lee-Dee square is more of a U shape (or Z if you draw it with both men on the left side as I visualised the Lost one, Anders/Kara on top, Lee/Dee as the bottom line), but to me that's still a love ____ (call it what you will), since... like I said, triangles aren't usually real triangles, either.

...

Also, on a pure character interaction level... I don't think both Jack and Kate are the problem. I personally liked Jack and Juliet together. Sawyer and Juliet are rockin' together in the 70s. And Sawyer/Kate is somewhat interesting due to both of them being smooth criminals. Jack/Kate blows, to me... because Kate is so uninteresting when she's around Jack. Jack's always like that, right? Heh.

"Despite what some say, her (Juliet) and Matthew Fox were far more interesting as a potential couple than Jack and Kate ever were."

Amen, John F. I'm with you, brother.

BF said...

Chalmers --> Agnes --> Skinner --> Krabapel

Sonia said...

I am relatively new to this show, in that i don't always immediately understand what is going on, but I look up stuff onthe internet after an episode if I don't know who someone is, etc. So I'm not getting the full impact of the drama of each episode.

But I really enjoyed this last episode b/c of the acting of Sawyer and Juliet -- over this season, you could feel their bond strengthening. They have great chemistry together.

That being said, nothing has been better than that screen shot of Sawyer and those dimples...oh my!! Alan, you are a kind and thoughtful man for cyber preserving this moment for us! LOL

Girly said...

It just occurred to me that Sawyer and company saw the statue above at the same time John was talking to Christian below. So I guess that means Christian can appear/communicate in any time and place he chooses, nudging people into action?

Also--I was a huge skate fan for 4 years, but after just one episode, I found myself rooting for Sawyer and Juliet. Oh Lord, does that make me as fickle as Kate? :) (especially since she had her chance to stay and continue to "playhouse" with him last season).

Alan Sepinwall said...

That being said, nothing has been better than that screen shot of Sawyer and those dimples...oh my!! Alan, you are a kind and thoughtful man for cyber preserving this moment for us! LOL

I am nothing if not a generous, non-discriminatory host. If I gave the dudes Yvonne Strahovski dressed like this the other day, least I could do is give you Sawyer's dimples.

yeewah said...

I am nothing if not a generous, non-discriminatory host. If I gave the dudes Yvonne Strahovski dressed like this the other day, least I could do is give you Sawyer's dimples.

Oh my...that dimples scene was amazing, I was really distracted by Sawyer´s dimples. He´s not my type but he has really great featues;)

BTW:
Dawson => Jen
Jen=> Pacey
Pacey => Joey
Joey => Dawson

...ok, not the most perfect show but at least it was a ground breaking teen show at that time...kinda...lol

Anonymous said...

Call it a hunch. But I think the reason why there are no children being born on the island in the present is because of the poison gas that Ben unleashed.

Danny said...

How about Saved by the Bell? Zach Morris hooked up with Kelly/Jesse/Lisa/Tori. Slater hooked up with Kelly/Jesse/Tori. Poor Screech never got involved. Thats gotta be like a love octagon.

Stef said...

I really, really loved this episode, and not *just* because Sawyer's my tv boyfriend. :-)

Sawyer and Juliet have amazing chemistry together, and I'm another whose heart just sank to see that we're only going to get one episode of this great time for them together before Jack and Kate return to mess things up. I could've watched another whole season of "The Dharma Years" and loved it!

But what bothered me most about the last few minutes of the episode was that Sawyer *lied* to Juliet about where he was going. I think she actually may have understood the truth and that he wanted to go see them alone -- but either way now the fact that he lied is going to make it worse. The 'shipper in my had a little heart break at that moment.

I am also SO curious about where adolescent Ben Linus is in 1977!

That scene between Sawyer and Alpert was so fantastic. What I liked about it best was that, maybe for the first time?, we saw one of "our" characters have the upper hand in having more information than Richard/the Others. Richard didn't know who Sawyer was, but S got to reveal his power and set the terms of that conversation. Are tables turning? I was also very impressed with Sawyer's "con" to Horace and his story of Jim LaFleur, bringing up the Black Rock.

Bryan said...

I tell my wife about me making comments here about Lost and she say's "What's your screen name 'iwishiwassawyer'"

I don't know if that says more about her or me.

Stef said...

Oh, and a quadrangle? That terrible movie YOU'VE GOT MAIL. Meg Ryan is with Greg Kinnear and Tom Hanks is with Parker Posey, but by the end they've switched couples.

Lane said...

why does the statue have to be an actual Egyptian god? We have never seen the front of the statue, have we? For all we know, the face can be Richard, or Locke, or Hurley or someone else we know... let's see if a cast member loses a toe sometime this season or next, ala season one of Prison Break

Beebo said...

I'm guessing that Richard produces the dead body of Paul to the Hostiles and lies, saying he was executed for having killed their two. The truce maintains. "Justice" is done.

On the Burke-LaFleur relationship, is JulesEtJim too tricky a nickname?

David Thiel said...

@Lane: Exactly. I actually missed the statue on the initial airing, as I skipped through what I thought was more "previously on," but now that I've seen it, the first thing I thought was "it must be Richard." If it's just a statue of Anubis, why be coy about showing its face? I, too, thought the "eyeliner" crack was telling, especially with the other Egyptian references.

Collin said...

QUESTION: In "Life and Death of JB", Jack seems pretty reluctant to go back to the island, during the hospital room scene with Locke-- which occurred VERY shortly before Locke's death.

But in 'Thru the LG' we find out that Jack had (for at least the past several months BEFORE Locke's death) been flying over the Pacific, TRYING to get back to the island. In fact he's ON A PLANE when he gets the clipping about Locke's death. Was he just lying to Locke about not wanting/having to go back? Or is my timeline all out of whack?

Anonymous said...

I am in the minority...I was extremely underwhelmed with this episode. I didn't feel like we really learned anything and the last 3 minutes were ruined by last week's preview.

My first thought as to the baby's identity was Ethan.

Toby O'B said...

Lane: "let's see if a cast member loses a toe sometime this season or next, ala season one of Prison Break"

Ahhhh.... it's a statue of Casey from 'Chuck'!

Anonymous said...

Mad Men! Thank you! That character's face was *so* familiar but I couldn't place it!

Brandon said...

Alan, I can't believe you missed your chance to quote Seth Cohen and call it a love rhombus!

Speaking of: Worf, Jadzia Dax, Bashir, Ezri? Granted the women are half the same person, but they chose differently in the end.

Stef said...

Collin: I think that storyline is still a little weak - what's really motivating Jack? - but so far I think it has to do with when John said in that scene "your father says hello" or whatever the wording was. I think that caused Jack to have a bit of a break and realize that all his visions of Christian may be adding up to something and that the key to that is on the Island. At least that's how I took it.

Jillian said...

Thanks to cable repeats of Lost, I rewatched Three Minutes last week (2:22), in which the Others gave Michael the list of people they wanted him to bring back with him to the Others' "camp": Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer. I'm not sure how Jin fits into the equation, but I thought it was interesting that J,K & H are the ones who end up on the island in 1977 and will presumably meet the Dharma people and possibly Ben, as opposed to Sun and Locke, who the Others did not ask for in 2004, and who may or may not be on the main island or in 1977 following the 2007 crash. So the Others were asking for people that had encountered the DI in 1977. But again, I'm not sure how Jin fits in to that.

Anonymous said...

When they showed Locke falling down the well and turning the wheel in the intro, he was alone. Does that mean that Christian is only a figment of Locke's imagination?

Jordan said...

Ok, when I started the whole Anubis thing, I wasn't even thinking about the mythological consequences. I just thought pointy ears above the head, long mane like hair, holding ankhs, it's the jackal one (jackal, jackal, it's a jackal, is it a jackal, jackal). I had to then look up the name. So again, my suggestion was on nothing but looks.

Holden Caulfield said...

Sawyer is my second favorite character on the show (to Locke) but I was unhappy with this episode. I realize that Sawyer has been on an upward trajectory towards redemption since the middle of season one (he waved to Jack on the way by as that guy plummeted to the depths of hell.) However, this was a Sawyer I don't want to see. By the end of the episode I felt like I was watching "Thirtysomething." It was just all too happy-touchy-feely. The romance music that played as Sawyer talked Juliet into staying "just two weeks" was Hugh Grant/Sandra Bullock sickening.

I get the dramatic irony. Jack came back for Juliet and Kate came back for Sawyer but now they are both unavailable. It is all very Shakespearean. The way this episode went, the whole series may just end in a delightful double wedding (with the exploding Jughead providing a glorious fireball sunset.)

Yes, I understand that they had to explain how the time jumpers managed to survive on the island until they could all get back, get back, get back to where they once belonged but this was a sorry bridge episode because of it.

The tease with the statue was nice but I did a freeze frame on it this morning and it looks really fake. It is a weak matte painting on a show that has a great CGI smokemonster. I thought the statue was that of Horus but, if Anubis has four toes then I'm probably wrong.

But, overall this was one of my least favorite episodes of the entire series. It is still “Lost” and better than most everything on television (though Breaking Bad is coming back finally) but a bit of a weak sister on the scale of “Lost” episodes.

As for love quadrangles, Shakespeare has a few of them, the most famous being "A Midsummer Night's Dream" where Lysander, Demetrius, Helena and Hermia are drugged by Puck into falling in and out of love for each other. In the end Shakespeare pairs them up, sets nature back in order, and ends the play with a nice little rhyme by the devilish Puck [Ben?}

Robin said...

First, I loved this episode. I agree with pretty much everyone else about Juliet and Sawyer. I never thought I could like Juliet's character until the brilliance of this season. Now she's one of my favorites.

Question about Sawyer and Richard - did Richard ever meet or see Sawyer on the island in 2004? I vividly remember Locke's meetings with Richard, and I remember Richard capturing Kate and Sayid during the Keemi saga in the season finale. But I'm thinking that Richard never actually saw Sawyer. Am I correct in this?

To me, that scene between Sawyer and Richard was one of the most riveting of the episode. The look on Richard's face when Sawyer talked about Locke was incredible.

My guess is that these two have had multiple conversations during the three years that have passed.

Side note - my word verification was babling. Fitting somehow :)

Alan Sepinwall said...

My guess is that these two have had multiple conversations during the three years that have passed.

And even if they haven't, Sawyer's spent three years shacked up with Juliet, with no real imminent danger to get in the way of her finally telling him whatever she knows about the island. So we could be in an interesting situation where some of the Lostaways finally know stuff, and some don't.

Adam said...

Few people on the island remember the survivors of 815 when they crash in 2004... BECAUSE the purge kills everyone in Dharma (perhaps, even, the survivors of 815 themselves). The Others who are still alive when the 815ers land DO remember them... don't you recall their detailed files? How they seem to know everything about them? How they're always one step ahead? It's because they've had since 1974-77 to know exactly who these people are.

Steve said...

Re: Jillian's post
"Thanks to cable repeats of Lost, I rewatched Three Minutes last week (2:22), in which the Others gave Michael the list of people they wanted him to bring back with him to the Others' "camp": Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer. I'm not sure how Jin fits into the equation, but I thought it was interesting that J,K & H are the ones who end up on the island in 1977 and will presumably meet the Dharma people and possibly Ben, as opposed to Sun and Locke, who the Others did not ask for in 2004, and who may or may not be on the main island or in 1977 following the 2007 crash. So the Others were asking for people that had encountered the DI in 1977. But again, I'm not sure how Jin fits in to that."

Very interesting. If related, then this was a GREAT recall by the writers.

Adam said...

WHoa... Just thought of something!

What if Kate, Jack and Sawyer were being imprisoned in 2004 (by the Others) BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THEY DID IN 1977????

They were on a list compiled by Ben... who certainly knew them (at least Sawyer) from his Dharma days. Perhaps by imprisoning them in 2004, Ben is attempting to punish them for their actions in his past.

I can't wait to see young Ben again.

Anonymous said...

Alan - why is there no new episode next week? Just a midseason break?

Wrenn said...

Is anyone else going to go back and make sure that there's no corpse wearing a "LaFleur" Dharma shirt in Ben's mass grave?

Anonymous said...

I thought the three-year renewal called for uninterrupted seasons?

Jake said...

Is it possible that the Island doesn't allow for multiple iterations of the same person at the same time? Maybe Charlotte (or her body) couldn't travel back because she already existed on the Island in 1974. Same would apply to Ben. I don't know how it would work with Miles, if he is baby from the opener, but perhaps the original Miles is dead by then (hope not though).

This would also defy the Twelve Monkeys paradigm to some degree, but it is a different show after all...

Also, the movie "We Don't Live Here Anymore" featured a pure quadrangle, although it was FAR from interesting.

AndyW said...

Was it ever firmly established when Ben gassed the Dharma Initiative? Seems like it would be the mid to late '80s, but I could be off.

Redsmom said...

http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/anubis.html

This site has some COOL stuff about Anubus including this:
"he was associated with the Eye of Horus and he was already thought to be the guide of the dead in the afterlife, showing them the way to Osiris."

So, there is a Horus/Horace connection.

Someone mentioned the Tunisa connection. Now, I'm hooked on these fascinating mysteries. Lost rarely disappoints.

Remember when the plan crashed and Ben asked for "lists in 3 days?" Then, and at other times, hasn't there been some indication that there is a "judgment" by the island as to the worthy and unworthy? Like the stewardess and the children were worthy to become "Others" and the characters we know and love (including Rose and Bernard who were kind of annoying people in their flashbacks) are too flawed?

Thanks, Alan and everyone for their insights.

Jillian said...

I wonder if it was a writer's joke - and a nod to the blogs - to name the character wearing an ankh Paul, as a play on Paul Anka. The pronunciation is different, so you don't notice it until you see "ankh" and "Paul" written near each other (at least I didn't).

Brendan McCarthy said...

Dammit, Jillian, you beat me to it. I've totally started to think that the "list" is of those who the Others met in the 70s, and they, being faithful people, have waited thirty years for their time traveling castaways to return.

I'm also one who doesn't understand the hatred towards Jack. I think the fact that he and Kate lack chemistry is kind of the point, no? Kate made a very clear decision to be with Sawyer back in season three. She gets off, marries Jack because he's there, but their marriage fails because she's still in love with Sawyer (don't they even have a fight during their marriage when this is specifically mentioned?)

Jack is not very good at relationships of any kind, and I've always taken this to be a part of his arc.

I hope that none of them end up together, personally.

Oh and one more, possibly related Anubis tidbit (this from Wikipedia, however):

"Indeed, when the Myth of Osiris and Isis emerged, it was said that when Osiris had died, Osiris' organs were given to Anubis as a gift. With this connection, Anubis became the patron god of embalmers..."

Thought I'd mention it as it reminded me of Jack needing to give Locke his father's shoes.

Jin's english tutor said...

Wonderful, season 1-ish episode, but one nit-pick: why the use of placeholder cards now (three years earlier, 36 hours ago...)? Lost has been jumping around time for 4 years; I think we're all paying close enough attention by now to figure it out.

Re: Bernard and Rose, it wouldn't suprise me at all to find them living on their own this whole time, happy as clams.

Question: does anyone else think that the coming war is the Dharma purge? Maybe Dan figures out how to open the closed loop?

Bradbury said...

I think the problem with Walt is that he is still growing and that the rest of the series seems like it is going to take place in a short period of time. If he were to come back next year, the writers would have to solve yet another growth spurt.

Still, with him, zach and the girl, those are major unresolved holes in the plot.

Anonymous said...

I liked that Juliet---who, based on what we've seen of her previous life, is probably both an M.D. and a Ph.D.---went to work in the garage. As a Ph.D. holder myself, I can sometimes relate.

dez said...

Note that Sawyer refers to Richard as "your buddy out there with the eyeliner." I guess they had to reference it sooner or later within the show, even if Lindelof and Cuse insist that Nestor Carbonell isn't wearing any eye makeup.


I swear he always looks like that in every role or picture I've seen him in. Nestor Carbonell must also be made of magic because he looked younger in last night's episode than he has the whole series.

Loved the ep, especially Sawyer and Juliet falling in love. Hated seeing the look of happiness and hope on Sawyer's face when Kate showed back up, though.

Perhaps the statue has Locke's face on it?

Redsmom said...

Although the Anubus myth fits the island better, I thought the statue looked like a cat goddess from the back. Something about the ears was more cat like than dog like. See Bast or Sekmet.

Steve said...

Whoa whoa whoa, Redsmom.

"he was associated with the Eye of Horus and he was already thought to be the guide of the dead in the afterlife, showing them the way to Osiris."

If that's a case, then I'm definitely buying that Hurley saw the "Eye of Horace" in the window of Jacob's cabin

Oh, man, I love this show.

Melissa said...

Pure Sawyer magic!

Bryan said...

I'm also one who doesn't understand the hatred towards Jack. I think the fact that he and Kate lack chemistry is kind of the point

I don't know if this is referring to the comment I made earlier or not about "here come's Mr. Buzzkill." but just to clarify. I like Jack very much too but this was the happiest Lost since - well maybe ever, (there were more smiles per frame than an ep of 7th Heaven I think) and Jack's gonna jump outta that van and start asking questions and bossing everybody around - BUZZKILL.

Steve said...

I also want to add that I think Matthew Fox is fantastic on this show.

Birdman said...

I think it's a statue of Manbearpig.

Omagus said...

Thanks to cable repeats of Lost, I rewatched Three Minutes last week (2:22), in which the Others gave Michael the list of people they wanted him to bring back with him to the Others' "camp": Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer.

What if the Lostaways stuck in the past instruct Ben/Richard/someone else on which of their 2004 versions need to be captured and when it needs to be done to kickstart all these events?

Steve B said...

Count me among the many who were sorely disappointed at seeing Jack and Kate return to the island. I know they have to, but...

I also think that, as much as we love them, Rose and Bernard can't really add anything more to the mythological part of the show. I've assumed since we began jumping in time that they are, in fact, Adam and Eve. That should be acknowledged pretty quickly though. It's very surprising how the writers have basically ignored them for this long. When everyone thought Sawyer's decision to return to the beach was dumb, he should have responded with something like, "Where else are we going to find Rose and Bernard?"

I don't think we'll learn anything about what makes Locke special until the finale. That has to be the biggest mystery right? Right now, we have to assume that he's special because he told Richard that he was special in the '50's. This episode reinforces that belief in Richard, as Sawyer talks to him about the crazy, bald John Locke from Richard's past. But as of now, that cycle was started by Locke, which can't happen due to the time traveling rules of Farra***Boom*** my head exploded.

christy said...

Actually, I kind of want to see a 12-year-old Ben looking adoringly at Juliet, have her put the pieces together and completely squick out.

OK, this just gave me an epiphany! Remember when...what's her name...Harper! asks Juliet what she thinks of Ben and Juliet says something about how he treats her well or something and Harper says "of course he does. You look just like her." Everyone thought "her" was either Ben's mom or Ben's childhood friend. But maybe it was Juliet! Grown-up Dharma 1970s Juliet, whom Ben knew as a kid. Maybe that's why Ben sought her out to bring to the island once he grew up.

Speaking of "The Man Behind the Curtain," did it establish whether there were fertility problems in the Dharma days, or only after the Hostiles overthrew them? Clearly, it wasn't an issue back in the '70s, so whatever caused all the miscarriages has yet to take place.

Maybe, but not necessarily. The other doctor mentioned that they usually send pregnant women to the mainland to give birth. Maybe they also send them to the mainland to conceive. (Or just don't allow them to stay on the island if they conceive there).

And Adam and others beat me to it, but the Others know a lot about the 815 people when they arrive in 2004. They surely remember them from before. Locke from the 1950s, Sawyer and them from the 1970s...

I literally applauded when we saw the in tact four toed statue. All of this Egyptian talk is totally awesome, I'm loving it.

bettyd said...

I agree that Sawyer was great in this epi and his chemistry with either woman is better than Jack's chemistry with anyone.

Question - the VW Van was originally on the big island - in the end it was used to run over others. In this epi the VW Van is on the small island where the camp is. The van was in the epi with the beer on the big island; also in the epi where Ben killed his dad on the small island. I guess there are multiple vans OR I am confused..

Steve B said...

BettyD:

We did see Dharma mechanics working on multiple VW vans.

Brendan McCarthy said...

SteveB:

Agreed about Rose and Bernard. Aside from Rose being healed of cancer (which I personally assume is the island's doing, and not some special power she has), there's nothing to be solved, revealed, or plot-moving about these two. I think the audience has made them important, not necessarily the writers.

And betty,

Pretty sure the van is on the big island. Where did you see it on the little one?

Steve B said...

Here's a question for everyone. According to Dharma, the Others are an 'indigenous' people. We know these indigenous people speak Latin. Is it fair to assume the others are the descendents of whoever erected the statue? If so, why did they keep Latin as their common language if we are seeing pieces from Egyptian mythology? Shouldn't we be seeing something from Roman mythology, or at least shouldn't they be speaking ancient Egyptian?

christy said...

Right now, we have to assume that he's special because he told Richard that he was special in the '50's. This episode reinforces that belief in Richard, as Sawyer talks to him about the crazy, bald John Locke from Richard's past. But as of now, that cycle was started by Locke, which can't happen due to the time traveling rules of Farra***Boom*** my head exploded.

I don't necessarily think that it can't happen according to Faraday's rules. Whatever happened happened. If we accept that it's a closed loop, there will always be chicken-and-egg situations like this. In a way, it's the very definition of Faraday's time travel rules.

christy said...

As for the romances, the recent EW cover story had this tidbit from Michael Fox:

Whichever way romance blows on Lost, Fox hopes that it just doesn't...well, blow. He feels the show has sometimes indulged the lovey-dovey stuff for the sake of ratings. ''That's someone going, 'People love romance, so just turn the buttons and dial it up,''' complains Fox. ''Look, I understand that. But it has to be f---ing credible. Our world doesn't lend itself to conventional romance. Yearning? Yes. Desire? Yes. Passion? Yes. And when those things play out in the context of survival s--- that's gotta get done, where people's lives are f---ing at stake — that's cool. But romance? I haven't always bought it for Jack and Kate, and I haven't always bought it for Kate and Sawyer. The show's too intense for that.''

No wonder Kate and Jack have no chemistry, if Fox himself doesn't buy it.

Bryan said...

According to Dharma, the Others are an 'indigenous' people

I think Dharma just assumes they are indigenous - I don't think they've taken time to know them very well.

Also we know the Others speak Latin but we don't know if they can/can't speak other languages.

El Marpla said...

How about that love hexagon in Swingtown?

Patrick Wynne said...

"And is it a coincidence that the Orchid's portal leads to northeast Africa-- Tunisia, is it?--which makes me wonder if Tunisia was ever part of the Egyptian empire"

It wasn't. Egypt's control never extended that far west and, as far as I know, neither really did their influence.

I don't think that statue is Anubis. The ears are all wrong (way too short) and I've never seen a representation of Anubis with a headdress object like that statue has. (Though it's been about 15 years since I studied any Egyptian art or history and I'm certainly no expert.) To me, the ears look more like they belong to a cat-headed deity.

TODD said...

Charlotte couldn't move into this time period, because she was already on the island as a child. The island couldn't let 2 of her exist.

Maybe the nosebleeds become worse as you get closer to running into yourself in a different time period???

crash said...

What a darn good episode! Josh Holloway is great actor. And finally I'm 100 percent committed to Juliet! I was sold on their happy little relationship (the first in Lost history if I'm not mistaken?) until when Kate showed up and the look on Sawyer's face... oh man, we're in for a world of emotional hurt coming up. AND I CAN'T WAIT! HA!

Only thing, where's Daniel in the three years later 70s?

Jill said...

Nickname Unavailable's question about how the sub can always find the island when it's always moving got me thinking: we know that a specific spot in Tunisia is the "exit point" for the island, so why wouldn't the island have a specific entry point? for instance, some place underwater off the coast of Washington, near Portland, perhaps? The problem with this idea, as far as I see it, is why would ben not just commandeer a sub and use that to get back to the island? It's possible that Widmore wouldn't know about it, given that he was exiled before Dharma knowledge was integrated into the others- but why would Ben orchestrate a plane crash for the O5s return when he could just Hunt for Red October it back?

Another note on Anubis: as I noted before, Anubis weighed souls and fed the unworthy to a creature- whose name was Ammit (incidentally a "she", also known as The Devourer or the Eater of the Dead). I am really starting to think there is a direct correlation between Ammit and the Smoke Monster- Ammit was "the personification of divine retribution for all the wrongs one had committed in life," which makes me think of the smoke monsetr "scanning people" and flashing scenes from their life, as we saw with Eko. There was a judgement and forgiveness aspect to the Monsters actions, as we've seem with the Monster-Yemi and Eko interaction. Another clue comes from the fact that in some versions of Egyptian myth, she didn't eat peoples hearts, just stood guard over the lake of fire into which they were cast (wasn't there a volcano on the island? what else would qualify as a lake of fire?) Ammit was also seen as a demon by some, and as a force for good by others- which reminds me of the dichotomous views of Smoky- John thought it "was beautiful", someone else described it in exclusively negative terms.

All of my childhood love of Egyptology is coming back to me- thanks Lost.

Anonymous said...

I got the sense Juliet doesn't really know that much more about the Others. I don't think she was privvy to their secrets, she was sort of kept at arms length until they needed her for something specific, like the pregnancy thing.

Anonymous said...

I think everyone from the plane crash is in the 1970s.
I also think Charlotte disappeared because she couldn't be in two 'times' at once, so she got to be in the alive time. I also think this is why young Ben has not been seen. He is alive from the crash, therefore he cannot be on the Island in the past. (So the past has already been altered without a young Ben there to kill everyone.)
I am not sure if it makes any sense, but that is my story and I am sticking to it.

DJ RJAY said...

Here's one thing I don't get, who was providing all the Dharma food drops?

Can't be Widmore since he wants to find the island and clearly doesn't know where it is.

Can't be mainland Dharma people since I assume they would have lost contact with the DI island people and stopped providing supplies. So why would they continue to drop (or even produce) all this food & medicine with Dharma logos all over it?

shara says said...

Re: the Love Quadrangle - would Melanie/Wanderer/Ian/Jared from Stephanie Meyer's The Host count? Wanderer is an alien consciousness implanted into the head of Melanie, who is still there in the back of her mind. Melanie was already in love with Jared, and Jared was in love with her. Then Wanderer sort of fell in love with Jared from forced access to Melanie's memories. So, then Wanderer (in Melanie's body, with Melanie in the background) goes and finds Jared, who is still in love with Melanie, and Wanderer also meets and falls in love with a dude whose name I think is Ian. So, two girls in one body and two dudes. I don't know if it counts as a quadrangle, but it certainly ranks among the strangest love-triangly thing I've ever heard of.

jim treacher said...

I'm starting to wonder if the time travel business will be used to explain how they all ended up on Flight 815.

DJ RJAY said...

Anonymous said...
I also think Charlotte disappeared because she couldn't be in two 'times' at once, so she got to be in the alive time.


I think you're wrong because Locke saw the spotlight in the sky coming from the Swan. Clearly the other John Locke was on the island too.

Jordan said...

Sticking with the 12 Monkeys/WHH closed loop, and not some kind of Back to the future thing, Charlotte didn't travel because she was dead. We assume all the other dead bodies in the island's history (or atleast the 815ers') aren't moving so why should she?

Alan Sepinwall said...

I just have to say that, for an episode I thought didn't need to be picked over very much, we're already up to 175 comments in less than 18 hours. And only a few of those were about the possibility of Anne Hathaway and Michelle Williams hooking up.

You guys make me proud.

Bix said...

As far as the Sawyer/Juliet shipper name goes: After tonight, it clearly has to be LaFleuliet.

Blade said...

The pinball machine was a 1982/1983 machine, so it didn't exist in 1977.

amitytv said...

To take Jill's thought of an entry point even further, what if the entry point is in the air? Only planes can fly through it, and those that have left the island and are returning to it, get taken off the plane and plunked onto the island in whatever time zone they are supposed to be in. The rest of the plane and the people on it simply crash onto the island because the instruments have been totally messed up. That might explain why Jack's dad, Christian's coffin was found somewhere in the middle of the island and was completely empty. He had been there before and was returning.

Steve said...

As for Cindy and the kids, remember that vaccine Desmond kept injecting himself with (every 9 days)? The one Claire was so intent on finding for Aaron during Season 2? Perhaps the Others use that stuff themselves, and it makes them immune to the shifts in time.

Bobman said...

So why would they continue to drop (or even produce) all this food & medicine with Dharma logos all over it?

Now that time travel is such a prominent factor, who says they actually were dropping supplies in 2007? Maybe they were dropping supplies in 1977 and the supplies were flying through some time warp on their way to the ground. It's the only thing that makes sense (as much as something like that CAN make sense) considering the entire Dharma clan was killed 25 years before

Bradbury said...

Regarding Bernard and Rose:

I was just talking with this dude, and he has this theory that Bernard and Rose are the skeletons are Adam and Eve, the skeletons found in the cave way back in season one.

Anonymous said...

this is the statue

http://www.egyptianhealing.com/Taweret.jpg

Patrick Wynne said...

It's not Taweret, either. The Lost statue is obviously male (both in form and dress) and does not have the body of a hippo/lion/crocodile thing.

Jill said...

I thought that the Dharma food drops were because at some point in the past Dharma got a whole bunch of them together and then "sent" them toward the island at slightly different vectors, thus ensuring that Dharma staff or sympathizers would have food and supplies in perpetuity.

When Daniel did his experiment with the rocket fired from the freighter to the island on a specific bearing, we discovered that the vector determines when the object arrives on the island. I guess at the time, I just assumed that explained the food drops as well.

christy said...

One interesting thing about the Dharma food drops is that because of the Swan station, there was still at least one legit Dharma person on the island, still doing Dharma business, as late as fall 2004--Kelvin. Of course, we still have no idea how the drops were getting there, who was in charge of them, and whether any mainland counterpart to Dharma knew whether their people were still there or whether any survived the purge.

I think the injections from early seasons will come into play. Did Sun ever receive any?

Alan Sepinwall said...

Was Kelvin definitely Dharma, though? Ben acted like what was going on in the Swan had no relation to what The Others were up to, but you know how unreliable Ben is about everything.

Lizbeth said...

Sawyer and Kate were only on the island together for 108 days (give or take time apart or imprisonment). Sawyer and Juliet have had each other's backs for three years.

Please, please, please don't tell me Kate is going to come back and undo years of love and commitment between Sawyer and Juliet in one minute. I hope Sawyer is smart enough to realize that what he has with Juliet is real.

I for one am very worried for Juliet...worried that her days are numbered now that Kate is back.

And like others mentioned, I too was kinda disappointed when Jack and Kate showed up. Who knew watching Sawyer play house would be so satisfying?

Steve said...

re: Taweret

we only saw the back of the statue, and the fact that Taweret was the goddess of fertility, and often carried around an ankh or a knife (connction with Locke), it's not completely out of the question.

Regarding the Adam and Eve thing, more connection to Bernard and Rose existis in the black and white stones found by Jack on the skeletons

Kenny said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

The 'Ankh' is an Egyptian Hylogriphic symbolizing eternal life... Something to consider as Richard seems to never age along with the time travelling deal.

christy said...

Was Kelvin definitely Dharma, though?

As far as we know, he was, but according to the 'pedia, the way he arrived on the island is shrouded in mystery, and it couldn't have been too long before the purge because of Kelvin's history with Sayid in the Gulf War. So, it's possible he's one of Ben's people, and Ben had him recruited when he was a Dharma/Others double agent. But we don't know. Further complicating things is the question of whether the radioactive...thing...that the Swan was keeping under control was Jughead. Because Jughead is an Others thing, and The Swan is a Dharma station. But regardless, Kelvin seems to have arrived via Dharma, before the purge, and kept doing what the station was built to do. So maybe that's related to the food drops? Or maybe as someone else mentioned it's like Faraday's payload, and that one just took EXTRA long to show up. :)

Lane said...

Kelvin wore a Dharma jumpsuit didn't he? He was the toughest screw in Dharma.

Alan Sepinwall said...

Kelvin wore a Dharma jumpsuit, but so did Bakhunin (aka Patchy). It's entirely possible that Bakhunin was, as he claimed, the last survivor of the Initiative, or it could be that he liked to wear the jumpsuit, in the same way that The Others, for a time, liked living in Dharma village like contemporary civilized folk.

David said...

thought this was interesting regarding anubis.

http://www.archaeowiki.org/Anubis

"Frequently referred to as the foremost 'jackal' god of ancient Egypt on the basis of his head and erect ears, it should nonetheless be noted that whilst closely resembling a jackal in his zoomorphic form—and sharing the term s3b employed by the Egyptians for jackals and other canines—the full iconography of Anubis does diverge subtly, but significantly from a pure jackal form. As such, while the Anubis 'animal' does display the essential characteristics of dogs (elongated snout, five-clawed frontal paws and four-clawed hind paws)...

obviously a paw is not a foot but it lends more credence to the anubis idea.

and apropos of nothing, it was noted in wiki that in greek mythology hermes took on many of the characteristics of anubis.

"Messenger of the gods, god of flight,
God of boundaries, shepherds, cowherds, thievery, travellers, invention, general commerce and literature."

...

The Homeric hymn to Hermes invokes him as the one "of many shifts (polytropos), blandly cunning, a robber, a cattle driver, a bringer of dreams, a watcher by night, a thief at the gates, one who was soon to show forth wonderful deeds among the deathless gods."[2]

...

Hermes gives us our word "hermeneutics" for the art of interpreting hidden meaning.

Patrick Wynne said...

Re: Taweret...

"we only saw the back of the statue"

And from that partial glimpse, it's obvious the statue is male. Look at the little kilt/skirt thingie it's wearing; female deities weren't depicted wearing that. Plus, the body looks masculine, not feminine. And I'm fairly sure that the striding stance the statue looks to have (check the position of the right leg versus that of the left; there's actually a gap in the trees where we should be able to see the right leg if it was coming straight down or was at a slight extend forward) is generally reserved for male figures, whereas females tend to have their feet together, or, at least, closer together than the males do.

Not only that, but the figure clearly has a human body form, not that of a hippo/lion/croc beastie like Taweret.

And why are we assuming it's a statue of a known Egyptian god, anyway?

Lester Freamon said...

Was it ever firmly established when Ben gassed the Dharma Initiative? Seems like it would be the mid to late '80s, but I could be off.

Actually, yes. It happened on December 21, 1992 at 4:00 pm local time.

Jennifer Finney Boylan said...

Okay, my favorite episode of the season so far, in part because once again, finally, we are focussing on CHARACTER instead of the endless argle-bargle of the mythology which at this point, even among die-hard LOST lovers like me, I am willing to admit feels like they're just MAKING UP ANY DARN THING THEY LIKE.

And what a PLEASURE to hang out with Sawyer and Juliette for a whole hour. The lies! The comedy! The-- dimples!

A quick shot of Horus from behind was a true treat. So was seeing my favorite redneck clean-shaven. Can I also say-- for a guy who prides himself on being an angry bonehead, Sawyer reads more than anyone I know?

Finally: the reason this episode ROCKED more than any other so far this season: IT'S THE ISLAND, STUPID. No wacky boat trips to Oxford, no hunkering around skyscrapers in Seoul, or waking up in Tunesia with a broken leg, or stumbling around Los Angeles in orange jumpsuits or bad beards or coffins or Mr. Clucks. The key to the show is the SETTING. As long as we're on that island, the magic works. When we're all around the globe and the only thing holding us together are the twin mendacities of Widmore and Ben, well jeez. All I keep thinking is, as Jack put it so memorably, WE HAVE TO GO BACK KATE.

Last night we were back, and the writing shone. Holloway too.

A splendid time was guaranteed for all.

Jake said...

Lizbeth said:
Sawyer and Kate were only on the island together for 108 days (give or take time apart or imprisonment). Sawyer and Juliet have had each other's backs for three years.

That is a really good point. It would be nice if somebody on the show said something to that effect, because it is difficult for us as viewers to recognize the difference between screen time and "real" time.

In other news, I was pumped by the reference to the polar bears. Maybe we'll get to see them in Frozen Donkey Wheel training!

Jennifer Finney Boylan said...

I am also now officially recanting my prediction that the four toed statue was Sawyer. After the somewhat exaggerated attention paid to our man's toe injury earlier this season, I imagined they'd all time-jump to a thousand years ago, where Sawyer would become worshipped by the locals after losing the selfsame toe.

This now is clearly not the case.

But as we bid farewell to the theory, can I just say one last time: a GIANT STATUE OF SAWYER, made 1000 years ago? That would have been awesome.

I guess this idea turned out to be stupid, even by the tremendously high bar set by LOST.

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