Spoilers for "Eggtown," the latest episode of "Lost," coming up just as soon as I reorganize my Olivia Newton-John VHS collection...Behold: the power of the cliffhanger.
Until its closing moments -- its closing seconds, really -- "Eggtown" was the closest thing we've had to a dud so far this season. Sure, certain details got revealed -- the broad outlines of the Oceanic Six lie, the matter of Kate's pregnancy (presumably, she's had her period since the polar bear cage), the wonkiness of the chopper flight out, some more clues that Faraday may not be all there mentally -- but not as many as in the previous episodes. And Kate, whether solo or as part of the love triangle, isn't nearly as compelling a central character as Sayid or Hurley (or some of the freighter people, for that matter). I would have been okay with a Kate spotlight that offered plenty of forward momentum/explanations, or with a spotlight on a richer character in which not a lot happened, but this episode offered neither.
But dammit... "Hi, Aaron." They've got me in their clutches, those manipulative bastards Lindelof and Cuse.
So let's think about this for a minute. If we assume all of Desmond's visions come true -- not a safe assumption, since he thought Naomi was Penny -- then we know Claire and Aaron will get on the helicopter at some point. Presumably, this means Claire dies, and part of the deal regarding the Oceanic Six and their cover story is that Kate got to take Aaron off the island and pretend he was her baby. And, presumably, the six of them (does Aaron count as one of the Six, or are they really the Oceanic Seven?) came up with a lie that made Kate into the hero of their survival to help her with whatever legal issues arose when they got back to the mainland. But I still have no idea how this particular collection of people -- including one who went with Locke (Hurley), the leader of the other side (Jack), the first person to go to the freighter (Sayid) and someone who kept bouncing between the two camps (Kate) -- wound up being the ones to go home, the motives for the lie, etc.
That's a lot to digest in just two words, and enough to make me forgive what had been a relatively dull episode until then.
As I'm off this week -- and as I wasn't that inspired by "Eggtown" -- I'm going to move straight to the bullet points and then open up the discussion to you all:
- "You just totally Scooby-Doo'ed me, didn't you?" Between that line, the clumsy wink and the "Xanadu" viewing, Hurley was a bundle of fun in this one.
- I was worrying that Kate would go to all that trouble and then Miles would admit that he had no idea who she was.
- While Ben continues to have Locke's number every minute of every day, I loved seeing Locke get over on somebody else with the hand grenade pacifier he gave Miles. I'm assuming it's a dud -- John couldn't risk blowing up a valuable asset -- but it was still damn funny. Also, did you catch that Locke says he's "responsible for the well-being of this island." Not "responsible for these people." "Responsible for the well-being of the island." Not that I trust the freighter people in the least, but Hurley, Sawyer, Claire and all the redshirts would be wise to run far away from the eggman.
- On the other hand, why is Locke sleeping in Ben's bed, cooking in his kitchen, etc? I thought he considered all that stuff "cheating." Couldn't he at least camp out in the backyard or something?
- Nice to see a return of the backgammon set, which we haven't really seen since early in season one.
- I'm told the pop-up video version of the season premiere referred to the woman in Faraday's flashback as his "caretaker," and the three-card monte scene with Charlotte implies he has some memory problems, if not more serious brain injury. If nothing else, it's a good explanation for Jeremy Davies' usual twitchiness.
- Who was that Korean couple studying a map on the beach? I feel like I should know them from somewhere, but where? Any ideas?
96 comments:
I thought the Aaron thing was pretty telegraphed. When they had the scene with Claire and Kate talking about kids, I immediately thought "it's not Kate's baby"... and I'm usually pretty slow on stuff like that.
That said, good but slow episode. I think that grenade is a dud just like there were no bullets in the gun.
Odd, it was my favorite episode this season. Scratch that, it was the only episode I did like so far. Since Lost repeatedly fails to answer the basic mysteries of the pilot, one episode full of good acting and drama puts it above average in this show. Except this dying-mother-scene, that was way too cliche even for Lost.
See, it was all a dud for me, since I figured it was Aaron as soon as MamaKate asked to see her grandson. I did appreciate hearing the lie, but that's about it. I was actually rooting for Ben to get loose and kill Locke. My favorite character has become one of my least.
I picked up on a little foreshadowing during the laundry scene, but still I powerful closing scene. So when Jack and Kate were talking near an airport runway in an earlier episode, they were talking about Aaron? Not Kate's husband?
I wasn't sure about this episode's quality because I had the brainstorm 15 minutes in that Kate's "son" was Aaron. So I spent most of the episode waiting for the reveal. The presence of Claire for no reason, plus remembering the whole "you must raise the baby yourself or disaster will happen" arc made the light bulb go off for me.
I'm not sure this means Claire will be dead. Desmond saw her getting on a helicopter, but maybe she got off again for another reason, or sent Aaron on, or something bizarre that will blow my mind later.
I did still enjoy most of it, and I like getting more answers to stuff like why Kate isn't in jail. Of course, this really does continue the question of who qualifies as one of the six, since we now have Aaron off the island along with Ben. Who else is floating around? Juliet? Miles? Rousseau and Alex? Very intriguing. Very cool way to get around the limitations of "the Oceanic Six."
And if the six are all revealed in these next couple episodes, is it safe to assume that Michael and Walt never made it back and died at sea?
I'm curious as to who Kate et al would say the "father" of Aaron will be.
Claire: "Charlie? Who? Grief? what's that?"
For some reason, I initially guessed Aaron would be Kate's son when she first mentioned having one in the episode. I only started to doubt myself when it appeared she and Sawyer hooked up again. Interesting to note that future-Aaron appears to be around 2-3 years old so our castaways appear to be stuck on the island for quite a bit more time.
What I found more interesting was the Oceanic Six' lie. Primarily, why would the freighter folk support their version of what happened to the survivors of Flight 815? Unless they all end up dead (and it's the season 2 Taillies all over again), what becomes their motivation to lie for the Oceanic Six?
In addition to Hurley, I loved the fact that Ben pointed out the randomness of asking for $3.2 million and bargained from a compromised position.
Yeah that was a relatively weak episode. It underscores how weakened the writers have made Kate by having her character revolve around Jack and Sawyer. And I appreciated the way they set up the plot to try and plausibly explain Kate's freedom, but I have a tough time believing that with all the charges against her, she wouldn't draw ANY jail time, even without her mother's testimony.
The Losties' passivity towards the freighter team remains puzzling but at least they are starting to force the issue, between Locke terrorizing Miles and Jack and Juliet calling the boat.
Locke's character change has been quite dramatic...I think it supports a theory that something really did go on between Walt and the island healing him, as opposed to him just luckily surviving due to a missing kidney.
So Faraday could be so smart he's psychic, so damaged he has memory issues...or both? From what we've seen so far, plus the caretaker label from the premiere, it does look like both. It'll be cool to see what else we find out about the freighter team.
The future timeline is already somewhat confusing - Aaron looked fairly old at the end. Now that may have been because they always have to use older child actors, but between that and the trial presumably taking a long time, it's awhile before Jack even begins to beard out. But the season 3 finale had an April 2007 newspaper. Did all that happen in less than three years?
Jack mentions that there were only 8 survivors of the crash on the defense stand. That's one other piece of the cover story concocted by the Oceanic 6. I wonder who the other 2 survivors were and what happened to them to keep them from becoming part of the 6?? I'm assuming all other survivors are still on the island?
Well, I'm not feeling all that bright after reading these comments as Aaron came as a complete curveball to me.
I thought Locke giving Ben a copy of VALIS to read was pretty funny, at least after I looked it up on Wikipedia. Did anyone see what book Sawyer was reading?
I agree that this was fairly weak episode, but I didn't guess that the baby was Aaron till right before the reveal, so that semi-surprise helped me enjoy it a little more.
All the Claire stuff did get me thinking about her and the fact that she was able to have a baby on the island without dying. We've recently seen Christian in the cabin, so presumably he has some as yet unknown connection with the island beyond and predating the fact that two of his children are there.
Could the fact that she's Christian Shephard's daughter be the reason she could give birth safely on the island?
Sawyer's book [according to Lostpedia]:
"The Invention of Morel by Adolfo Bioy Casares is the book Sawyer is reading. The story is about a fugitive who hides on a deserted island somewhere in the South Pacific."
I thought the scene with Kate's mom worked. Very well acted. Besides, call me a sicko, but Beth Broderick can't be un-hotted even in a wheelchair with a tube in her nose.
So has anybody started obsessing about the timing yet? Kate got on that plane with no signs of pregnancy, and left the island with a 2-3 month old baby. Unless she doesn't get off the island for at least another year from "now," how does that work out? Does time pass more slowly on the island? If so, how do they know that so they can plan out how Kate will pass off Aaron as her child? Does Faraday tell them?
Oh, and when Kate's trail starts, how long has it been since they got off the island? Aaron looked, what, two? Three, tops?
$3.2 million. If it's such a specific, non-rounded amount, maybe it's how much Miles thinks he's owed? Because of something Ben did?
I'm not sure about Locke having a "character change." I've been watching season 1 again, and he did some crazy-ass stuff. I mean, he smashed Boone in the head with a knife-hilt, tied him up, and dosed him with jungle-shrooms, all to teach him his own potential or something. If anything, they're just returning Locke to the unpredictable nutjob he was before he got stuck with button-pushing duty. I love it!
"But the season 3 finale had an April 2007 newspaper."
Just because they used an April '07 newspaper as a prop doesn't mean that was the in-show date. By the time Jack goes totally crazy, my bet is that it's in our future. 2010 or beyond, maybe.
In the preview for next week, for a second or two they show Desmond with short hair and Faraday with long hair. Flash-forward? Or is Dez time-traveling again?
I'm no lawyer or anything, but isn't it odd for the defense to present a character witness (Jack) before the prosecution presents its case (Kate's mother)? That was kind of strange.
I don't if I'm more saddened that it was Aaron calling Kate "mommy," or relieved that it wasn't Sun & Jin's kid with her.
No, seriously, there are characters called Sun & Jin on this show, I swear! They appear to hang out in the closet with Bernard & Rose.
Or is Dez time-traveling again?
Not that I know of ;^)
Speaking of Jin, how did he learn that much English overnight? It was just a couple of sentences, but it was pretty smooth. Maybe they've decided to give DDK a break after 3 years...
Just because they used an April '07 newspaper as a prop doesn't mean that was the in-show date. By the time Jack goes totally crazy, my bet is that it's in our future. 2010 or beyond, maybe.
C'mon this is Lost, the writers were absolutely aware of the date on the paper. They wouldn't use a 2007 paper if it was 2010.
Fairly weak episode, still better than the first 2/3 of S3 though. Add me to the "saw it coming a mile away" camp with Aaron.
I'm wondering why Jack doesn't want to see the baby.
Also Ben gets a little more mysterious. We all knew he had a lot of power on the island, but it also appears that he has a lot of the island as well.
"C'mon this is Lost, the writers were absolutely aware of the date on the paper. They wouldn't use a 2007 paper if it was 2010."
Did they do a close-up of the date?
I assumed it was Aaron the moment Big Love lawyer suggested they put her son on the stand, because while it's only a year difference between the ages of Aaron and (theoretical) Sawyer Jr, that year means a lot in 'taking the stand' at a trial (and yes, jim t, I'm still sticking to 2007 as the flash-forward timeline from 'Through the Looking Glass').
But thankfully the reveal didn't make me groan like the answer was inevitable (instead, I woke my wife up shouting, "I was right!" - which made her groan like my exclamation was inevitable).
Did anyone else think Aaron looked Autistic or had Down syndrome? Hope that doesn't sound acutely insensitive to the actor playing Aaron. It's a valid question, though, given the history of births (or lack thereof) on the island.
I think the agreed upon lie is to protect the remaining survivors, and to keep people from searching for the island.
I mean, that airplane scene was filmed in LA. They used an LA newspaper as a prop. Then, when they did the close-up of the clipping when he was in his truck outside the funeral home, it was text that appears nowhere in the 4/5/07 LAT. The full newspaper was a prop. It wasn't pinning down a specific date.
I could have sworn that Kate called him "Eric" at the end. I rewound the TiVo a couple of times to make sure. I was like "huh? What's the deal with the name Eric?" But Aaron makes so much more sense.
I thought for a moment that the baby would be Jack's, for some reason he didn't want to acknowledge him, that's why Kate said that he had to accept the baby before he could see her again. Sounds like he might have had a hand somehow in Aaron ending up with Kate.
The story is 8 survivors, huh? That would make Claire one of the O6 or the Other Two.
jim treacher - no it isn't
april '07ers - yes it is
Isn't that how this played out last week?
Honestly, though, I think it's a better argument to think it could be a red herring more than the current purposeless props/coincidence angle jim is taking. Since the prevalence of HD, C&L have fully embraced the fans' screencapture and treasure hunting, so rare is the prop, especially one with text, that is without purpose.
Same obviously goes for use of original music.
I can't believe Kate & co are stupid enough to pass off Aaron as Kate's biological child given modern DNA testing capabilities.
Also, where are the rest of The Others??? With the loss of their beloved leader and the death of the recon team are they just shaking in their boots in the jungle? Hasn't eyeliner man taken charge yet?? Hasn't a single person decided to mosey back to the village?
"Isn't that how this played out last week?"
Well, people keep bringing it up.
"Since the prevalence of HD, C&L have fully embraced the fans' screencapture and treasure hunting, so rare is the prop, especially one with text, that is without purpose."
On the other hand, just this week Lindelof and Cuse said that the bracelets Naomi and Elsa were wearing in the previous episode had nothing to do with each other. Just when I was spinning my "R.G. is the Economist and 'I'll always be with you' means that the bracelets are some sort of tracking device" theory. That's how it goes. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Am I the only one that took the card scene as a test for precognition? The way he desribed the cards sounds a lot like the way actual parap[sycology tests work.
Since I've never cared much about the love triangle the show keeps foisting on us, there wasn't much of interest in the episode for me beyond the Miles stuff. (I remember reading a comment back in season one that Sun and Jack would make a much better pairing and thus a more involving romantic conflict; I've agreed ever since.)
One curiosity I enjoyed though: For those with better memories than I, is this the first time they've faked out the episode's subject, beginning with one character opening his eyes only to ultimately follow another into the flash-backs or -forwards? That was a bigger surprise to me than easy-to-guess identity of Kate's kid.
The thing that bothered me most about the episode was the trial. Even if the mum's testimony was the only evidence they had for Kate burning down the house, what about her other crimes. They were listed on her charge sheet, but weren't linked to her mother at all.
To take a Wire phrase, they wouldn't have been the 'headshot' but the DA still should have been able to give her some time. It would have been much more believable if a different approach was taken that didn't involve a trial.
I am also someone who was pretty sure of the baby being Aaron, but what I got from the episode, was that Jack is in some way responsible for Claire either dying, or not making it off the Island (which wouldn't fit with Desmond's visions), and his guilt means he can't face his nephew.
To tivo queen, why would that matter? It is unlikely people would care, they would assume the kid is hers and leave them be. The only problem is the one with time, and we don't yet know what the deal is there.
I too still obsess over the timeline. And didn't Kate's mom say something about how things had changed for her since she thought Kate was dead, and then mentioned four years? This would also explain Aaron looking and sounding like a 3+ year-old.
There is no way that April '07 can be the LA airport scene date for real. My take: last night's flash-forward is in 2008 and the six are all still celebrities. I guess that the airport scene will turn out to be near the end of the show's real run and be 2010, as someone above suggested. It makes some kind of linear sense that the crash happened on the same date in the show and in our real world, so maybe the end will be the same and the dates will match.
I also thought Dan's card trick was a psychic one (Bill Murray in Ghostbusters anyone?), not a memory problem. And count me among those who were completely surprised at the end.
And I thought the other surprise was Jack referring to the eight survivors. Did the other two survive the crash and then die on the island (in the lie)? That would be my guess, but it's another question posed.
Some thoughts -
- I'm in the 'the newspaper was really '07' camp. No way the Lost producers, with their attention to detail, let something like that slip through.
- I definitely think Faraday had a memory problem. Watch the scene again, they may not say outright that he couldn't remember, but they really insinuate it.
- Those who are bothered by teh trial - remember these people are considered celebrities, who in recent years haven't exactly been easy to convict on ANYTHING, regardless of severity. Kate's own mother testifying against her probably would have been enough to destroy her character, but without her, you have a celebrity who is regarded as a "hero" thanks to the official story on trial for crimes that could be viewed as "just" in the right light. No way she's convicted in our society (especially in California).
- a friend of mine had an awesome thought - what if Miles is actually the mole Ben has on the ship? Didn't their extortion conversation seem very specific and have a lot of meaningless numbers in it? "3.2 million". "2 days". "1 week". Almost seemed like code, didn't it?
Reasons why I think the card thing was about memory, not psychic ability:
1)Dan seems to be part of the team for his scientific acumen, and having two psychics on the same team violates the Hollywood tradition of non-overlapping specialties.
2)Charlotte notes that a certain amount of time has elapsed before Dan starts guessing the cards, and he seems very upset that he could only remember two. The elapsed time would imply that he got a look at the cards, then had to hold them in his short-term memory as long as possible, and only partially succeeded.
Also, do you think Jack's reluctance to see Aaron in any way implies that Jack knows he's Aaron's uncle?
I'm going to have to say I was pretty displeased with the entire episode, except I guess the end, but it leaves me kind of annoyed that instead of spending all this time on Kate's boring story they could be dealing with Sun/Jin (I'm pretty surprised by Sun wanting to raise her child in Korea and I really hope they go into that more since A. why? Sun hasn't really been shown to be especially patriotic, although that's not a big issue but B. her father's still in Korea and still a crime-lord and still would want Jin to be his right-hand man), Bernard/Rose, or any of the freighter people. After the last episode, I build up so much anticipation for something grade-A and well, C+ at best.
But I did find it interesting about Aaron being Kate's baby. I'm eager to see what the disaster will be now that Claire's not raising him. I'm also wondering if ghost-Charlie will have anything to say about that.
Here's a question: Aaron's obviously at least too old to be born after the crash, so is he one of the Oceanic Six?
I think the 4 years can work with the April 07 time-line. The flight went down 2004, Kate probably saw her mother several months-a year before she went to Australia, so I think the dates match up.
Overall, I have to say the most intriguing thing for the episode for me was Faraday's experiment. It would seem odd if Faraday had memory problems since the freighter put him in charge of directing missiles, but that would explain the significance of him not knowing why the plane crash was so sad for him. If he is psychic it's odd that he's disappointed with only 3 cards, is he used to more? (or did he loose his previous psychic powers, just as that faith-healer guy did (the one Rose saw), around the time of the plane crash? Again that could explain the plane crash sadness). Either way it suggests that the Dharma Initiative isn't dead and they're still experimenting.
One thing about Miles though: I can totally see him using the extortion for code, but it would also be cool for him to be just that money-centric. However, if he did check out the survivors' names, shouldn't he be curious about why Locke can walk or why Rose isn't dead from cancer?
To bobman, the point re Kate's trial isn't about the arson/murder, as that can be defended (abusive/predatory monster) but not the countless other crimes she had on her rap sheet. Those aren't negated by the absence of her mother's testimony.
Oh and Alan, as I said, I don't think it is just knowledge about Claire, I think he feels responsible for why Claire and Aaron aren't together anymore.
Yep, gotta agree with the majority of you; pretty blah episode until the last few seconds, despite the great Hurley moments. I am oblivious and didn't see the Aaron "twist" coming. Well done, Lost writers.
I hope they bury this love triangle subplot and soon. It's getting ridiculously boring. They didn't sleep together because she was sad? And she was mad that Sawyer didn't want her to be pregnant? Wha?? And Jack is still claiming to luuuuuve Kate? If they would stop shoving this down our throats it would be so much better.
With regards to Kate raising Aaron -
There's a deleted scene for the second Eko flashback episode that shows Claire's psychic confessing that he had taken a bribe from a couple in L.A. in order to convince a pregnant woman (obviously Claire) to give up her baby. The psychic also admitted to being a fraud in the same episode. I think that particular plot is pretty much closed.
Re: not being able to have babies on the island without dying.
If the baby was conceived off the island, then the mother can have the child on the island without dying. That was covered in the episode where Juliet takes Sun to the "baby room" and does an ultra sound. Juliet tells Sun that the child is Jin's....meaning she conceived on the island and won't be able to have the baby without dying.
I thought the title was "Eggtown" not "Eggman."
I still don't know what it's supposed to mean though.
I thought the episode was incredibly boring. For the first time since I started watching Lost, I actually found myself doing something else while it was on. I called the Aaron reveal after the first time she said "my son".
I'm interested in what Ben does and who he is -- how does he tie into this show that is going in so many different directions?
I also thought it was pretty telling that Sun said "I want my baby to be raised in Korea". Not "our baby". I see a very grim future for Jin in the future. Poor guy, I really like him.
You're right, it was "Eggtown." I'll go fix it.
I'm confused- how do we know that Kate isn't actually pregnant on the island? I noticed that when Sawyer broke out the box of wine, Kate sort of held off the offered glass for a moment before accepting it. Couldn't the reason that Jack won't see Aaron be that Aaron is Sawyer's son? (Or that Jack thinks he is?) Why would he refuse to see his nephew?
Apologies if this has already been puzzled out. I did like the episode, especially continued fracturing of Locke's confidence and the latest helicopter intrigue.
Also, where are the rest of The Others???
In "Through The Looking Glass," before Ben and Alex take off for the radio tower he says:
Not we, Richard, me. You're going to take everyone to the temple as planned.
Eventually we'll get there.
Re: Trial problems, I think the prosecutor is in with Lt. Daniels and the conspiracy to find out what the Oceanic Six know about the Island so any trial issues would be covered by her plea arrangement that Kate stay in the state.
I agree that Jack knows he is Claires half-brother and he has some guilt issues about how Aaron ended up with Kate, I forsee a dramatic reveal episode where Claire dies.
Grenade has to be a dud.
Hurley and Sawyer as roommates cracks me up.
I think the 3.2 million as code and Ben's response is interesting. At first I thought based on Miles flashback that he had some sort of dream that needed financing but code makes more sense.
As to the psychic:
He did admit to being a fraud, but the fact that he made up the thing about the l.a. couple doesn't mean that what he said about Claire needing to raise the baby herself wasn't true. It's like Professor Trelawney or Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost - a whole lot of bullshit and fakery makes one true manifestation of psychic ability more impressive and also, ironically, harder to believe.
I wonder if the title is a nod to the "Easter eggs" that people are always looking for in each episode.
Lostpedia has the 411 on the title. Eggtown is a pejorative term from the early 20th century used by traveling salesmen regarding bad bargains but it could have been used to con someone as well. To quote Lostpedia "The term "egg-town" represents a deal with undesirable outcomes in either case."
Hmmm....And I thought it was because it was the first time some of those folks had seen real eggs in about 100 days.
"Eggtown" was probably playing with words... so the definition fits, but it also works that the Locke-crew has settled into a town where they sleep in beds, answer the door, hang out on a porch, and eat eggs.
Which, I might add, was a little surreal.
I didn't dislike the episode, but I was disappointed with what Miles said to Ben. However, like the entire Henry Gale plotline, he's terrifying even when he's chained up in a cell.
And I agree, Alan, about wanting Locke to at least rough it a little. Locke remains my favorite character, but I miss season one Locke.
@ anon: It was very strange that the defense presented their case (Jack's testimony) before the prosecutor presented her case-in-chief. I'm used to tv playing fast-and-loose with rules of procedure and legal-realism, but that seemed a bit too much. I figured the defense would call the mom to the stand to recant.
Drake: Aaron seemed to me to be developmentally disabled too. Neither Down's or Autism would manifest itself on the island when Aaron's a baby.
I don't think Aaron should be counted as one of the Oceanic Six, b/c to the public he would not have been on the Oceanic flight. So, if eight survive and 6 make it off the island, that means two publicly-known survivors die. That is, two probably die trying to get off the island.
Why doesn't Jack contact Sayid (as he did with Kate) and talk to him about getting back to the island.
I agree with Alan that Jack may know that he's Aaron's uncle. Christian most likely had a will and would have left something for his Australian daughter.
Also, if Christian's been resurrected and is hanging in Jacob's cabin, there's always the possibility he could tell Jack and/or Claire by himself.
Also, Kate seems very certain that she's not pregnant, which would lead me to believe, as I said in the post, that she had her period sometime between the polar bear cage sex and now.
Polar Bear Cage Sex is destined to be a new category of porn.
Bruce: "For those with better memories than I, is this the first time they've faked out the episode's subject, beginning with one character opening his eyes only to ultimately follow another into the flash-backs or -forwards?"
Yeah, in my rambling live-blog of it, that was my first thought. "Wait, is this a Locke episode?" I think it is the first time they've done that, yeah.
Alan: "Also, do you think Jack's reluctance to see Aaron in any way implies that Jack knows he's Aaron's uncle?"
That's what I'm thinking. Seeing Aaron brings up all of Jack's Dad stuff, which is never far from the surface anyway.
Rand: "However, if he did check out the survivors' names, shouldn't he be curious about why Locke can walk or why Rose isn't dead from cancer?"
Yeah, but in previous episodes he mocked Sayid when Sayid pointed out that Miles didn't seem surprised to see them alive. And Miles said something to Jack like, "Look, I'm not asking YOU a million questions..." I think he knows what the Island is all about, so that stuff wouldn't surprise him even if he gave a crap about anybody but himself.
Stephanie: "I'm confused- how do we know that Kate isn't actually pregnant on the island? I noticed that when Sawyer broke out the box of wine, Kate sort of held off the offered glass for a moment before accepting it."
I thought that was just her trying to be flirty. Which made Sawyer say, "You're really bad at this, aren't you?"
bill: "Also, where are the rest of The Others???"
Waiting for CBS to cancel Cane, which they did this week. Yay, Richard Alpert can come back!
Ted: "Hurley and Sawyer as roommates cracks me up."
How funny is it that in the Island version of The Odd Couple, Sawyer is Felix? [looking over his glasses] "Could you turn that down? I'm TRYING to read!"
I'm no lawyer or anything, but isn't it odd for the defense to present a character witness (Jack) before the prosecution presents its case (Kate's mother)? That was kind of strange.
That setup is certainly backwards from the way things actually happen in courts in California. But for the purpose of the story, if mom not testifying buries the prosecutor's case, then there's going to be no reason for Kate's attorney to get Jack on the stand and give the audience the (apparently widely-known) story about how the crash had only 8 survivors and 6 survived the island. And that the plane crashed in the ocean (as per the footage from the season premier), not broken up on land with 40-some survivors.
In "Through The Looking Glass," before Ben and Alex take off for the radio tower he says:
Not we, Richard, me. You're going to take everyone to the temple as planned.
I just listened to a podcast Cuse and Lindelhof did last fall in which they discussed that the actor who plays Richard was cast in Cane. The character is still alive, but the actor not as available, so he may not be back until the post-strike episodes.
Lost Easter Eggs says Sawyer's book, The Invention of Morel, is about a man who is "creating a machine to reproduce reality." Then I found it interesting that there were two robots on the wall over Aaron's bed. These two tiny facts probably have nothing to do with anything, but they fit into my theory that the fifth Cylon is on the Lost island...
Did they do a close-up of the date?
I don't know, but they didn't do a close-up of the writing on Charlie's hand, either, and that was definitely an intentional easter egg. I agree with others that an intentional red herring is definitely within the realm, but "just a prop" seems very unlikely, especially considering the Nirvana thing, too. Still, I think an April 2007 paper, even if it's not a prop, doesn't necessarily tell us anything except that it was April 2007 at the earliest. Also, all this timing stuff will depend heavily on how exactly the whole time travel/island time/real world time works, which we don't really know yet.
I guess that the airport scene will turn out to be near the end of the show's real run and be 2010, as someone above suggested. It makes some kind of linear sense that the crash happened on the same date in the show and in our real world, so maybe the end will be the same and the dates will match.
You think the entire series ends in Spring 2010 with Jack screaming to go back to the island and Kate saying that they can't? That would be a pretty unsatisfying ending. No, I think we'll catch up with the flash forwards at some point and move on to what happens next.
Not we, Richard, me. You're going to take everyone to the temple as planned.
Ooooh, thanks for this reminder! Now I'm psyched to see what this is going to entail.
I think the idea of Jack making some decision involving Aaron that favors Kate over Claire, and then later finding out that they're related is pretty plausible. I also don't think Aaron could be considered an O6 member, any way you slice it.
On the other hand, just this week Lindelof and Cuse said that the bracelets Naomi and Elsa were wearing in the previous episode had nothing to do with each other.
Interesting. Where did they say that? I didn't hear it in the podcast but I definitely could have missed it.
the fifth Cylon is on the Lost island...
By Gods, Mo, you're on to something.
How's Ben for a candidate. He seems awfully immune to torture -- as if death is no problem. Just reboot on the harvester and come back as frackin' Dean Moriarty.
The episode was mostly boring, but at least it answered the question of whether Kate would have to face her charges when she got off the island. And I didn’t have trouble believing that she got off – if the world believes she’s a hero and a survivor, and the only evidence was a confession to her mother, it might have been hard to convict her without her mother’s testimony.
“I assumed it was Aaron the moment Big Love lawyer suggested they put her son on the stand…”
Did the lawyer want Aaron on the stand, or did he just want him to be visible in the courtoom for sympathy? I don’t think that was clear.
I’m curious – was it clear in the episode that Kate is passing off Aaron as her own baby? It seemed to me that it’s possible that the Oceanic Six could have said (for whatever reason) that Claire died on the island and that Kate raised Aaron as her own.
I believe that the card game was about memory, not psychic powers. I think he said something like, “I could only remember two.” And it does tie in nicely to him not knowing why he was crying at the footage of the sunken plane at the start of the season.
I thought Kate’s whole espionage thing, just to see if Miles knew she was a fugitive, was ridiculous.
Oh, and about the whole “defense before the prosecution witness” thing. I’m no lawyer either, but I recently served on a jury. There were a lot of doctors as witnesses, and some couldn’t get away on a certain day or were traveling from out of town. So the defense actually started its case before the prosecution finished theirs, due to witness scheduling. So I guess it can happen.
Christy: "...they didn't do a close-up of the writing on Charlie's hand, either, and that was definitely an intentional easter egg."
I really think writing something on a stuntman's hand and having him slam it up against a piece of glass is different than buying a local newspaper so that there's an actual object there when the script says "[Jack picks up newspaper]," but apparently that's just me.
"Where did they say that?"
Here ya go. It's their own fault... By this point they've trained the audience to scour each episode for clues, so they can't blame us for finding stuff that doesn't really mean anything. But sometimes it really doesn't mean anything.
"How's Ben for a candidate. He seems awfully immune to torture -- as if death is no problem."
Definitely Ben could be the fifth Cylon. He does seem to survive just about anything. Could Jacob be the Cylon's God? hmmmm....
On the topic of bad jokes, as Kate was walking into the kid's bedroom (before we knew it was Aaron), I said to my husband, "wouldn't it be funny if it was Walt in there?" Bwah.
Umm...I thought she said "Hi Eric." Whoops! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I think there's more to the reason that Jack won't go see Aaron with Kate, even though he loves her and wants to be with her. Especially if he's the reason that Claire is dead - with Jack's "Fix It" obsession wouldn't he be all over Aaron trying to make it all up to him? In fact, Kate and Jack raising Aaron together sounds more Jack-like then avoiding the boy.
Didn't Kate say something about "accepting" him? Maybe there's something scary special about him.
Christy: I don't think the series will end back at last year's finale with Jack and Kate at the airport. I think that specific time will return late in the series (final 1/3 or 1/2 of final season?) with the last few episodes picking up where Jack and Kate left off. The flashforwards we're seeing now, which precede the airport scene, will continue to (slowly) progress to get us back to airport-scene time.
Again, to me, the key to figuring out the timeline we're dealing with in the last few flashforwards is decoding how long passes between these recent ones (Jack & Hurley in the gym, Kate's trial, Sayid's killing the woman) and the Jack/Kate airport scene. I still believe this time span will prove to be something in the area of 2 years so that the series will end on tv in 2010 and in Lost World 2010 as well.
I applaud those of you who believe Miles was speaking code to Ben. I had the thought that he was Ben's plant, but never put the code thing together, and it makes a lot of sense.
Someone above said "Neither Down's or Autism would manifest itself on the island when Aaron's a baby" Actually Down Syndrome (no s at the end) has physical characteristics in the facial structure. I am old enough to remember kids called "mongoloid" in the 60s b/c of the physical characteristics in the face. I sorta thought that too, but it was just sleepy baby.
I think the timeline would be OK for Aaron's age, since it would take some time to get the trial process going. He seemed a bit more than 2 to me, which is a typical age for toddlers to starting talking.
There is no way Clare is one of the 8/6. Even if she died, why would Kate get the baby? I think it is part of the story to protect Kate from prossecution. Something must happen to Clare. ANd How did Kate get that big house!
Loved that Sawyer called Kate on the "you'll be back when Jack does something next week!".
Was anyone else bugged about the throwing the tray scene? Didn't they do that scene when Ben/Henry was imprisioned in the Hatch and John tried to talk with him. Ben got him rattled then, and he throw something around or cleared off a desktop?
Did anyone else think
Ben as the fifth cylon. Hee. Love it!
"but I miss season one Locke."
Sigh. I do too. I am enjoying this creepy psycho dictator Locke, but I'm sure not rooting for him. Walkabout was one of the best hours on TV I've ever enjoyed and it gives me the chills just to remember it. I loved his season 1 scenes with Walt. I loved when he built Claire a bassinet. Hell, I even loved it when he helped Charlie get over his drug addiction. Is he going to be this season's Big Bad, like Evil Willow in Buffy Season 6??? Always interesting when a once-beloved sympathetic character becomes eeeevil.
Just to stay with the Downs Syndrome theory one last time before I give up on it:
What if Aaron was born with it and the island temporarily heals him. Like Locke's paralysis and Rose' cancer? Getting rescued from the island means he's no longer healed of the condition... and it presents another reason to get back to the island.
Just a thought. Now I'll put it away.
ANd How did Kate get that big house!
I have a feeling the settlement from Oceanic (plus, probably income from book / movie rights to the story) were huge.
I just thought of this and it would make for a really great story.
I think the last of the Oceanic 6 is Locke I also think he is the man in the coffin. That would explain Kate’s disdain for whoever was in the coffin.Kate has never been particularly fond of Locke especially now that he banished her from Othertown. It would also explain why nobody showed up to the funeral. Locke has no family; his father was killed by Sawyer on the Island and his mother is a nutcase. It also would explain why Jack was so distraught over his death. Jack wants to go back to the Island really badly and Locke was probably the only other person who agreed with him on that. I think Locke was forced off the island by the Freighter Folk because he was the one who was trying to protect the Island. One idea is that eventually he just killed himself because he failed in protecting the Island and probably went back to being paralyzed. But I really think that Locke was pulling the same con as his father. I think Locke faked his own death…notice nobody showed up at the funeral just as nobody showed up to his Dad’s funeral. He faked his death so the creepy dude who visited Hugo would think he is dead so that he could be free to go back to the Island without anybody stopping him. The fact that nobody was at the funeral really makes me think that it’s Locke pulling that con and trying to get back to the island. I just thought of this now and it would blow my mind if that is what was going on.
What if Aaron was born with it and the island temporarily heals him. Like Locke's paralysis and Rose' cancer? Getting rescued from the island means he's no longer healed of the condition... and it presents another reason to get back to the island.
This would also contribute to Jack's unwillingness to see him...
Kate should die, seriously.
Wouldn't it be cool if the island cured Faraday's brain problems?
Just one thought:
For all of you speculating we're going to rejoin bearded Jack and the airport scene near the end of the series, C&L revealed to Jeff Jensen this week that we'll find out THIS SEASON who was in the coffin.
I'm not sure how that happens unless we rejoin that timeline this season. I'm sure there's a way, but it seems like they're going to rejoin it and the move along from it over the last 2 seasons, not the last 1/2 or 1/3 of a season. Just my guess.
Here's an interesting tidbit:
Actor Shawn Doyle, who plays Kate's lawyer (and is on HBO's Big Love) was also in the 2000 film Frequency, playing a character named: Jack Shepard!
For those that don't remember or haven't seen it, the film's sci-fi backdrop of crossing 30-years across the time-space continuum seems relevant.
The film also features one Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet) as well, and was directed by NYPD Blue vet Gregory Hoblit (that last bit is for Alan ;).
Cool, thanks for the EW link. I hadn't seen that yet. Lots of good stuff there. He seems to be saying that they didn't intend for the bracelets to have a connection outside of Sayid's emotions, but they may end up adding a more concrete connection, or at least they may make a point of explaining away the coincidence within the show. That's how I took his "We might need to address that" comment.
so that the series will end on tv in 2010 and in Lost World 2010 as well.
I agree it would make a lot of sense for them to do that. I just think that the S3 finale comes way before that point.
Wouldn't it be cool if the island cured Faraday's brain problems?
I wonder if they were really testing to see if Faraday was being healed by the island? Also, what would a fully healed Faraday be like? Personally, I think he would be awesome, but he could just as easily turn out to be scarier than Ben.
In an interview while promoting Vantage Point, Matthew Fox says about Lost's time frame on the island vs the flash-forwards:
"If you're going to talk about from Jack in the plane crash to Jack in the future, that's about a year and a half, and Jack on the island now would be about 120 days."
Count Fox in the April '07 camp.
The whole depiction of the trial in this episode really bugged me. It's like these guys have never seen an episode of Law & Order, let alone Matlock.
A few folks have already chimed in about the defense calling a witness before the prosecution. The prosecution almost always goes first because it's their job to make a case for a conviction. The defense doesn't even have to present a case, and sometimes they don't bother too if they believe the prosecution hasn't made its case.
It's pretty laughable too that the prosecution's entire case would hang on Kate's mother's testimony. Wasn't there a bank robbery involving multiple witnesses, including her cohorts she shot? What about the police chase that led to her childhood friend dying? Wouldn't she face a manslaughter charge?
And if the Oceanic 6 are as big celebrities as they're supposed to be, any smart DA would get as much ammunition as possible before trying the case.
Still, the most glaring error to me was that she was being tried in California. IIRC, she blew up her step-father in some midwestern state so California has absolutely no jurisdiction to try the case. You can't just tranfer it over there.
I don't mind to get wound up over that one aspect of the episode because I actually enjoyed the rest of it with Hurley, Locke, Sawyer, Miles and the Aaron reveal at the end.
It just seems like the writers spent so much time setting up Kate's criminal past and chose the laziest way to resolve it.
drake: "Count Fox in the April '07 camp."
A year and a half would put it in the summer of '06, wouldn't it? Assuming he knows what he's talking about (I don't, since most of the other actors admit they have no idea what's going on).
A year and a half would actually be April of '06... an understandable error considering he's giving the estimate off the top of his head (interview is supposed to be about Vantage Point, after all).
I'm not saying Fox knows anything concrete, just that he believes he's portraying himself in a not as distant future. Whether or not that's true, is fully debatable, otherwise, I'd recommend deleting this chain as a spoiler ;)
Eric R, love the idea about a Locke fake-out funeral!
I also really like the notion that we're now working up towards the Sn 3 finale moment at the airport, but that future season(s) will then show what happens next. Nicely gets to the ancient-history idea that Jack and Kate ARE Adam and Eve.
If I remember correctly, the promo for this episode said we'd learn another member of the Oceanic Six. If that is true, Aaron has to be one of them.
As for Jack having issues with Aaron, this would simply be a result of his personal daddy issues. Imagine finding out your Dad had a daughter he never told you about and then finding out on the frackin' island that your an uncle. Normal people in the real world would need time to accept it so its realistic that Jack would too.
On another note, for storytelling purposes, catching up to the airport flash-forward works better the sooner they do it. If they leave it until the finale, the audience is likely to feel that this season was somewhat worthless. Granted we see what happens on the island, but a whole season of set-up in the future to get to a place we've already been shown would rob us of the "oh crap, did they really just do that" type of cliffhanger we want from the show going into a hiatus.
I think the card thing was about psychic ability; he saw the plane crash on TV and started crying. . . He may be just like Walt or in the same family.
Speaking of the actors and what they do and don't know about the inner workings of the show, Terry O'Quinn gave a very interesting interview the other day (click here). The quote I took out of it was concerning the writers' decision to have Locke literally stab Naomi in the back. O'Quinn didn't like it, and he went to them and said, "Well, if I stab her in the back, couldn't I at least shoot Jack in the knee or something?"
I didn't catch the connection at first, but he went on to say: "One of the nice things about this cast, this size of cast, you get a new episode and you go, 'Oh great, now I get to work this little arc with Michael Emerson. We have a lot together. Or with Josh Holloway or Evangeline Lily and it's almost always a pleasure to find out who you're working with. Almost." When asked who he doesn't like working with, he said: "There've been some rough times but it's very familial in that way. It's like the holidays when you go, 'Oh God, Uncle Bob's going to get drunk and abuse my cousin. But we'll get through it.'"
Do you think Matthew Fox is "Uncle Bob"? He's notably missing from O'Quinn's faves list, and Fox has a rep for being kind of a diva. I can see them not getting along, considering Fox is the ostensible star, yet Locke is the more interesting character and not nearly as many fans hate him and want him to die.
Besides all the mysteries and clues etc one thing has been sticking in my mind for the last2 seasons and more-these people are the most hydrated people on any tv show-they are always concerned about having water with them-drinking water-water-water-water. As everything else on this show it must mean something.
In no particular order:
I think that baby/toddler just might have a fat face rather than Down's Syndrome. Not certain that Autism would be something we could "see" in facial chracteristics that early if at all. No offense to the child actor, maybe that wasn't his "good side".
My first thought was that Jack does not want to be around Aaron because he reminds him of his own father (Aaron's grandfather) and perhaps the mysterious Christian Shepherd is going to show up and take the baby under his wing so to speak. Reminiscent of the early Locke/Walt relationship but with less time spent throwing knives.
Folks seem to be a bit obsessed with Kate's menstrual periods but perhaps she just believes she cannot get pregnant based on past issues? WE know that the island can likely heal some medical issues but did Sun ever say to Kate "I/Jin was infertile and now the island has changed this and I am pregnant?" If she did it would be one of the few instnces of unambiguous coversation we've seen. Not that it means anything one way or the other, since we have no clear notion of how time passes on the island Kate could get pregnant, lose the baby or heck even have the baby and sacrifice it to the island gods at the temple of the others and still be raising Aaron.
The lawyer's allusion to the baby as a character illustration said to me that it is known by the public that this is not Kate's biological baby. My thinking is that there is some dramatic rescue story, something we will actually see or just another of the host of whoppers they tell when they rejoin society. Can't see why anything we've seen so far invalidates the idea that Aaron is somehow dangerous. If he has some kind of psychic powers he might be the cause of a turf war after Claire is out of the picture...these folks seem set in their us versus them ways.
I have long since given up trying to sort out the timeline or timelines but why does everyone assume that because in April 2007 Jack is a bearded addict he could never bounce back? Assuming that every scene in the future in which Jack is smug, handsome and clean shaven comes before the period where he is whiney, chubby and hairy might be a mistake....rehab, a gym and a barber can do wonders.
I don't watch Galactica, but ever since Mira Furlan showed up my secret Lost theory is that it's all a gigantic experiment by the Voorlons.
I saw the baby Aaron bit coming early on (although they said it would be a dramatic ending in the podcast, and that got me thinking that way). And he was credited as "Two Year Old Baby". (That's the only good thing about having to watch it on the computer tonight.)
But of course it wasn't that great. It's a Kate episode!
Devin McCullen, you are my hero. I was going to bring up Babylon 5 and Mira Furlan but was too chicken. I can definitely Go There, sci-fi TV-wise, but I wimped out. I must give it up for your timely and well-put Voorlon reference.
Can we start talking Deep Space 9 now? Talk about the Founders? Just kidding.
Putting aside the headache inducing timeline discussion for a second, I just want to say that I want to see more of Hurley and Sawyer as the Odd Couple. I see them getting a wacky new roommate named Miles! Maybe starting a coffee shop at the Dharma Village where they all hang out (Karma Koffee?). There's comedy gold there, I tell you.
"On September 22, James Ford was asked to remove himself from his place of residence. That request came from the government of Australia..."
"Still, the most glaring error to me was that she was being tried in California. IIRC, she blew up her step-father in some midwestern state so California has absolutely no jurisdiction to try the case. You can't just tranfer it over there."
Thank you, Anonymous! That really bugged me as well - Kate is from Iowa, isn't she? What was the trial doing in California?
The other aspect of the trial - that of the defense calling Jack to the stand before the prosecutor made her case - escaped me.
And put me in the camp of those who called Aaron as Kate's "son" as soon as she refused to let him get involved in the trial. The scene between Kate and Claire only clinched it.
I'm hoping by the end of the series, Locke sacrifices himself to save the island - going out in a blaze of crazed glory like Cody Jarrett in "White Heat".....
A couple of people have asked whether this is the first time we've had a fakeout, where the first close-up eye shot is not on the person the episode centres around. The only other episodes I can think of where they did this are the first episodes of both season 2 (Desmond) and season 3 (Juliet). Slightly different, in that at least we were meeting someone new, but still, tye fit the criteria.
Nevadasmith--My husband keeps saying the same thing about the water. Why do they keep showing us all of that drinking if it doesn't mean something? I haven't been paying enough attention, though, to notice who is drinking more than anyone else, if there is someone who isn't drinking water, etc. And there was that scene last week when Locke had the lemonade and Ben said he was thirsty (though he didn't get any). Probably means nothing. But it's nice to know that someone else is thinking about the water!
Am I the only one who thought Kate was lying when she said she knew she wasn't pregnant?
Love all these comments - lot of food for thought - although I am in tiny minority that actually liked the episode!
And, alas, the big surprise of the last few seconds was blown for me because I read Alan's post title before watching the episode on DVR. Aargh!! Didn't anybody else see that underrated movie, if for nothing else then for Amy Ryan?
I think either by some chance Jack kills Claire or blames himself for Claire's death, so Aaron reminds him of her. That's why he can't see the kid
If Kate is pregnant:
It would explain why she got so upset with Sawyer -- she was testing his willingness to be a father.
The baby could still count in the Oceanic 6.
It would explain why Jack can't stand the site of him.
It would also suggest an unfortunate demise for Claire and Aaron.
From Jan
Re the title "Eggtown": it also works as a reference to all the baby/pregnancy/ovulation references.
And I have to agree with Special K: "I hope they bury this love triangle subplot soon...And Jack is still claiming to luuuuuve Kate." Oh, please!
It would also suggest an unfortunate demise for Claire and Aaron.
Only if Kate's son isn't the real Aaron, but named for him, I guess.
John F said...
If I remember correctly, the promo for this episode said we'd learn another member of the Oceanic Six. If that is true, Aaron has to be one of them.
The promo you are thinking of was refering to Sayid's episode (The Economist), not this episode.
The baby is not named after Aaron, it is Aaron. The blond hair was the giveaway to me that he was Aaron before she even said his name.
I do not believe that Aaron is considered part of the Ocenanic six (even though he should be). The group lie prevents them from saying he was on board the plane in Claire's belly.
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