Wednesday, November 08, 2006

Lost: See ya in 13 weeks, suckers!

Some very brief, disinterested thoughts on "Lost" coming right up...

So here we have an episode in which Kate and Sawyer finally get it on -- and, hopefully, bring an end to the lamest love triangle in primetime -- and that ends with Sawyer being held at gunpoint while Jack holds Ben at scalpel-point, and the entire thing bored me out of my mind.

Am I the only one not feeling the least bit eager for the next three months to end so we can find out what happens next?


Anonymous said...

That was seriously the biggest letdown of the season. The last few episodes have been terrible, but I was really hoping they'd go into the hiatus with a bang. Instead they went out with a thud. That was seriously the stupidest cliffhanger I've ever seen. It was just two people yelling at each other. Worse, whatever the outcome is, I don't really care since someone is still gonna be stuck on the boring Other island.

Things that didn't make sense:
1)Why have Kate beg Jack to do the surgery so they didn't kill Sawyer instead of just telling Jack they'd kill Kate?
2) Why did Jack only insist on a walkie talkie? How about asking for some sort of contact with the outside world?
3) Why did that Other decide that he suddenly HAD to kill Sawyer right then and there? They've been in those cages for weeks.

Anonymous said...

didn't kate's husband look a lot like Ethan - and what was the story jack told kate in episode 1?

Anonymous said...

This was horrible. A total waste. Could there be anything more contrived than that ending? Was it so much better holding Ben hostage as a patient than holding him at gunpoint? Hokey pokey.

The show needed to be goosed forward at this point and they left us with a bunch of people standing around screaming.

Perhaps the huge change Lindelof promised was the running of twice as many ads. Now even less can happen.

It's always nice seeing Nathan Fillion, though.

Anonymous said...

Fillion was good. That was about it.

The story Jack told Kate right after the crash was about performing a spinal surgery that almost went wrong, and how he had to overcome his complete terror. I guess he wants to make sure when he hears from her again, it's really her because she's the only one who would know that.

February, huh? Loved the promos: "No repeats. When it comes back, you won't see the same show twice. All new shows. Did we mention no repeats? Because there won't be any repeats."

Anonymous said...

Here's what I'm hoping for in the next 16 episodes:
I think it should be a flash-back from inside Kate's most recent flashback, where we discover that Nathan Fillion is actually from the future and pilots a rickety old space-cruiser with a rag-tag gang of nobel thieves. Now, THAT would be a kickass series.

Anonymous said...

And within that flashback is another flashback to the time he was sherrif of this small southern town and Michael Rooker got infected by this gross alien creature and...

Anonymous said...

To be fair, Lindelof and Cuse *way* undersold the "fall finale" in their Ask Ausiello interview from yesterday. Seems from their point of view this was just another episode, with the big bombs planned for the front half of the spring return.

That being said, even they need to recognize how weak the premises for these flashbacks are becoming.


Alan Sepinwall said...

Ryan, what drives me craziest about Cuse and Lindelof -- or, rather, the current top of the list of many things that drive me crazy about them -- is their defense of the pointless flashback structure. They used it in one of their recent interiews to justify Nikki and Paulo, saying something along the lines of, "The fans complain when we don't focus on the original characters, but they also complain when the flashbacks get repetitive, and how can we do interesting flashbacks without adding new people?"

Here's an idea: stop doing flashbacks unless you have a really good idea for one. But without them as a weekly time-filler, that would require a more concrete idea of what's actually happening on the island, wouldn't it?

Unknown said...

Awesome! Yet another flashback that advances neither character nor plot, and by guest-starring Nathan Fillion, serves to remind us of a great show where plot and character rocketed forward every week.


Anonymous said...

I'd be happier if I actually believed this was the end of the Love Triangle from Hell, but I don't.

One thing that did make me believe that they killed off Eko for um, non-storyline reasons was how they went out of their way not to show his body this episode. Of course, the main purpose of that sequence seemed to be having Locke/Sayid clips to show in the promos.

Nathan Fillion's always cool. But my pet theory is still based on having Mira Furlan playing Rousseau - that at the end of the last episode the Voorlons come out of a cave and say this has been a test to see if humanity is worthy of their future role.

Anonymous said...

Alan: Cuse is just a hired gun hack. Because of my insomnia, I've seen more episodes of Nash Bridges than any sane human being should see. And that show displayed a distressing lack of imagination, heart, or, well, ANYTHING in the six years it was on. Granted, Don Johnson probably had a lot to do with that. But I'm not surprised he still feels the need to do flashbacks- it's what they've BEEN doing, so why change it?

And Lindelof... well, the guy has taken over a year to write a story about Wolverine and Hulk hitting each other. I think he's a mite indecisive.

Then again, like you said, it would require a real idea of what's happening on the island, which they don't have.

And speaking as someone who usually puts up with the flashbacks as a necessary evil, this one last night was really freakin' worthless. And I LIKED the Locke flashback and though the Jack flashback, despite the misogyny and it tearing down Jack even more, was well done.

This, however... this just proved... what? That Kate can fall in love? That the writers really can't envision a character outside of their relationships, especially women?

I actually thought the cliffhanger was really cool, but what led up to it was dross. "This is for Colleen, you son of a bitch!!" Uh... huh. Look, I can see Danny, mad with grief, beating on Sawyer. But to coldly execute him for something he knows he had nothing directly to do with? C'mon. Do the Others have ANY perspective whatsoever? At least Michael Bowen is fun to watch.

Alex obviously has played a lot of The Goonies II on NES. "Don't believe anything they say!" No sherlock!

Tosy And Cosh said...


1) Dunno.
2) Because he knew he only had an hour before he'd either have to save Ben or let him die and he has no idea if they can just contact the outside world by making a phone call. He went with what he thought would most likely work.
3) I got the impression he was waiting for Ben to go under, that he was told not to kill Sawyer and wanted to make sure Ben ouldn't try and stop him.

On the flashbacks - I like them from a formalist perspective. I like the strcture they give to the episodes and the way they force the writers to fill in backstory regularly on these folks. Sure, sometimes they don't work as well as others, but to me it would feel like cheating to just not do one.

Anonymous said...

On Cuse: He also has Brisco County Jr. and Martial Law on his resume. Martial Law being a show I enjoyed more than any human being was entitled to (faint praise, I know). And can we give Nash Bridges a little credit for what it did for Shawn Ryan's career?

Anonymous said...

Martial Law was pretty dull when Cuse was running it, although compared to what came afterward by the Golberg/Rabkin team it looked like genius. I consider Brisco the exception the proves the rule.

Yes, Nash Bridges did help Shawn Ryan's career, by being so frustrating to him as a creator that he came up with The Shield in response to it.

Alan Sepinwall said...

Dan, that was initially my impression of the Ryan/Cuse relationship, but Shawn has nothing but nice things to say about Carlton, that he learned most of what he knows about TV writing and showrunning from him, and that he was not at all unhappy on Nash. He had just been there a few years and wanted to keep his options open come staffing season, which is why he wrote the Shield spec as a calling card, never thinking it would be made into a show.

Taleena said...

Ok the flashback didn't bother me so much because I got to see Nathan Fillion. Give me a flashback with him over Paulo the Artz worthy anyday.

Still I am mighty sick of the "love triangle" and if I were jack I would have demanded Kate and Sawyer were given a boat and coordinates home. Get them and their silly exhibitionist selves off of the island.

Which brings me to puh-lease you are going to get it on in a dirty cage, with a camera watching you instead of finding a nice leafy bower? I mean I know that Kate is unaware of the cameras but boy is she going to be pissed with Sawyer when she finds out he knew.

It was good to see the old Locke back. Did I mention that Naveen Andrews is hot? Why do we not have more scenes of Naveen Andrews running around?

Anonymous said...

Alan: I see. I got the impression from his Terry Gross interview that he didn't have a very good time on Nash Bridges, but I don't recall him complaining about Cuse directly.

I still think Cuse is a hired gun, though. Which is fine. But Lost needs better than that.

Alan Sepinwall said...

Yeah, I think Cuse is the kind of guy you need to keep the trains running on time but shouldn't necessarily be the #2 creative voice on a show this complicated and ambitious.

The endless direction-changing of Alias would suggest otherwise, but I have to wonder how much better Lost might be if J.J. had remained hands-on from the beginning.

K J Gillenwater said...

You know what I have noticed a lack of this season, the uses of the 'magic numbers' in flashbacks. There have hardly been any! Even when they had an opportunity to use them...such as Sawyer's jail flashback. Why couldn't it have been $15 or $16 or $23 million? It's like they've gotten too lazy to try to be clever anymore.

I did want to answer one anonymous poster's question, though. The reason Pickett did not kill Sawyer earlier is because Ben is in charge. I am guessing he holds a pretty tight rein on these people and their actions (thus, the reason why Juliet wants him dead...) The minute Ben is knocked out for surgery, Pickett took advantage of the opportunity and went to kill Sawyer. That is why he didn't try before.

The only really good flashback this season was Sun's.

Anonymous said...

If they dropped the flashbacks, they'd have to make it a half-hour monthly show to keep from blowing their proverbial wad too soon.

Anonymous said...

So who's Jacob and why does he have a list? That was the only thing that "changed everything" (sort of) last night.

Did someone say Bernard & Rose were searching the island for the missing children? I don't remember hearing that (possibly because I was kicking myself for ignoring most of Jericho and then realizing in the last 10 minutes that one of my faves, D. B. Sweeney, was guest-starring on it, DUHHH), but one of the DJs on the morning radio show I listen to mentioned it. If so, how about Bernard and Rose come back, and Nikki & Paulo & Kate take up the search (I like Sawyer, so he can stay in the camp)?

Also, why should John (3:5) look north, oh great Jesus Stick? And was Locke going to say he found his faith? His purpose? His plans for a Driveshaft reunion tour?

Anonymous said...

Alan: Yes, that's it; Cuse shouldn't be quite as involved in creative.

I don't know about Abrams; I really consider him one of the most overrated writers around. Terrific director, great pitch guy, good producer, but... his characters have never felt real to me.

Anonymous said...

>>Here's an idea: stop doing flashbacks unless you have a really good idea for one.

I couldn't agree more. I'm probably in the minority here, but if I see one more Sun or Jin flashback, I'm going to ask that Others guy to shoot me.

Overall I didn't hate the episode. What can I say... I think once I saw Nathan Fillion I found it hard to be negative. Because I'm a total geek that way.

Anonymous said...

The problem with the flashbacks is that they're so First Act. Unless there's a relevant revelation -- like when Jack met Desmond, though even that was iffy -- there's really no cause to further establish these characters. And we can't really further develop the characters -- Second Act stuff -- in flashbacks, because we've already been dealing with them in the present tense for a while. (The near-miss coincidences are cute, but I fear we'll eventually find out everyone on the island went to kindergarten together.)

What I found so exciting about the second season of Lost was that, by and large, the practical establishing stuff -- not just the characters, but the ins and outs of island living -- had been covered in Season One, and the show really felt like it moved forward. The scope widened. The people from the tail section obviously added to the conflict; it was important we flashback with them so we could see how they'd interact with the folks we'd already gotten to know.

By that model, the only flashbacks that might matter in Season Three would be The Others'. Indeed, the whole first part of this season would have been more interesting had we known more about the folks Jack, Kate and Sawyer were interacting with; the flashback that opened the season, at their camp during the crash, was really the only interesting one so far, this year. But even if Lindelof's mythology extends way beyond them (do the Others have Others?), he's just not willing to give up that kind of info.

Anonymous said...

Last year, Lindelof's Ultimate Wolverine Vs. Hulk debuted from Marvel. Now, page 2 and 3 of the first issue feature one of the most ludicrously giddy, insane things I've ever seen in a comic. A snippet of the Wolverine/Hulk fight that just... well, you have to see it yourself. The series' premise is that Wolverine's been dispatched to hunt down and kill the Hulk. Issue #1 featured events leading up to the fight from Wolverine's POV, issue #2 events from Bruce Banner's POV. Issue #3 promised the fight.


The series stopped out at that issue #3 has been delayed and delayed and delayed and is currently scheduled to ship after Christmas. Now, Marvel and DC have had many troubles these past few years with contracting TV/film writers for their superhero books- Allan Heinberg's glacially paced Wonder Woman, the Kevin Smith Spider-Man/Black Cat series which had THREE YEARS between issues, etc. Then again, for every chronically late comic by a Hollywood guy there's a Marc Guggenheim (CSI: Miami scripter who writes Blade for Marvel) who hasn't missed a date yet.

And then there's the TV writers like Whedon and Straczynski, who are doing comics because, well, they've got nothing else going on.

But Lindelof insists he'll get the series back on track, and eventually finish the other four issues of the series and get them to Marvel. But I'm wondering:

What if he's blocked? What if he just... can't... show... that fight? I keep wondering if that's the problem with Lost. He throws out one curveball of a tease but can't get the final out.

In any case, Ultimate Wolverine Vs. Hulk is well written for a comic with that sort of title, and better than any Lindelof-scripted Lost episode I've seen.

CM said...

dez was the only one who mentioned the ONE new development on this show (aside from the apparent killing of Alex's boyfriend, which, who cares?) : "Shepard wasn't even on Jacob's list."

How many times has Kate been held at gunpoint crying while one of the male characters dropped his gun and backed away? I can think of three without even trying.

dark tyler said...

dan: Whedon has two movies in development, Wonder Woman and Goners.

alan: To be fair about Abrams, Alias didn't start losing focus until he was not a showrunner anymore, IIRC. The first two seasons are very to-the-point and, more importantly, they deliver. If Lindelof was running Alias, SD-6 would have never gone down. Which, yeah, maybe would have -in retrospect- been a good thing. But I, for one, was very happy to see a mojor storyline getting an excellent payoff, which is more than I can say about any single thing Lost has presented us to date!

Anonymous said...

I liked it (assuming this really is the end of the triangle). It was nice to see one of the characters actually fight back, or really just do anything at all. The flashback told us how Kate gets to Australia (and heavily hints to how she is caught). I've been REALLY disappointed in the lack of those coincidences we saw last season, but maybe I've just missed htem.

Anonymous said...

"How many times has Kate been held at gunpoint crying while one of the male characters dropped his gun and backed away? I can think of three without even trying."

Yeah, for such a "badass woman," she sure cries like a little girl often.

So, who is this mysterious Jacob? Is he Ben's boss? Is he another red herring? More importantly, does he have a ladder that gets you off the island? :-)